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[2E] Running scene in labyrinth in total darkness ( with werewolves )

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  • [2E] Running scene in labyrinth in total darkness ( with werewolves )

    Topic is simple and complicated at the same time. I want to run a scene where pack of Uratha werewolves goes in to immaterial darkness. Like sticky, dense 'fog-like' darkness. Maybe characters can see like meter before them so they see a rock they walk into. But's that it. ( This place would also be Wound with no Gauntlet, shrouded by this sticky darkness, but's digression now. )

    So questons are those ( and why we have topic in general CoD forum ):
    1. Are there rules for 2E running scene in total darkness? Constant Blinded Tilt ( from CoD Rulebook ) in this location, assumed to work on both eyes, is enough?
    2. Scene takes also place in rock 'labyrinth' formation - Is there somewhere rules for 'getting lost' in those kind maze like places? Like, I do not know, Maze Tilt ( maybe in Beast )? Or using Chase Rules mechanics as to 'finding' themselves by the pack members and then target of the hunt?
    3. Are those all rules negligible by the Uratha superb senses? Wolf Senses rules seems to imply this:
    Originally posted by WtF 2E, p.94
    Wolf senses are considered the werewolf’s default senses in Urhan and Urshul form. Wolf senses offer a bonus to Perception-based rolls depending on her form. Further, if she would normally suffer penalties due to deprivation (blindness, strong scents, or deafness), her other senses compensate, negating those penalties entirely.
    Wolf Senses negate those penalties even in places like Wounds or 'No-Gauntlet', like this place is both?


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  • #2
    Blind and Lost are good conditionss if you just want it to be an issue for scenes, where if you want to make the exploration of the maze a more complicated affair, Chase should do you fine. Personally, I would employ the chase rules unless the labyrinth is actually not that big of a deal.

    The wolf/spirit senses entirely depends on the nature of the labyrinth and what's in it-if there is absolutely zero sound and smell somehow, then the only thing that would be detectable are their packmates, but that's also a boring hamstring by itself. I would conventionally allow for the penalty negation of Blind in most instances, but maybe have some obstacles that do qualify as obviating it. As for the maze itself, it's a good time to make it a mystery engagement-their sense should negate the penalties of Lost or whatever they operate under in the Chase rules, but there should also be aspects to the maze that can confuse and distract players from solving it until they properly figure out what it is and know how to account for it. Give the players room and space to realize how awesome their senses are as well as the limitations of them, that sort of thing.

    What sort of challenges of those sorts depends on what the labyrinth is, why does it exist, how did the players end up there, who and what is currently employing it, that sort of thing. But for now, good guidelines and all that.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
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    • #3
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      Wolf Senses negate those penalties even in places like Wounds or 'No-Gauntlet', like this place is both?
      If you want it to I don't see a problem. Like, the Wolf Senses aren't magic (or at least they function like natural senses), they can compensate for each other, but if they're all affected then they can't do that.

      Hell, it sounds pretty nightmarish for the Uratha. I'd play that up; sensory deprivation is not fun, especially if you're used to having super senses.


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      • #4
        Just as an additional source of confusion you could throw false flags at the wolves. You said that there is no Gauntlet in this Wound so it isn't unreasonable that stimuli from the real world could bleed over into the Shadow. Treat it similar to how Spirits in Twilight work, the wolves can't directly interact with objects in the real world but occasionally get that shudder as something from it impacts their senses. I don't know what you have placed in the real world at this location but a strong smell or the sound of voices, even a seeming brush on the skin could bleed through just enough to distract or hide something else.

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        • #5
          If there's no gauntlet around a wound there's literal Hell seeping into reality, yeah.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Malus View Post
            If there's no gauntlet around a wound there's literal Hell seeping into reality, yeah.
            Not quite, as Wounds are not direct portals to Hell ( if it's even possible interpretation ). as more like Inferno-tainted area:

            Originally posted by WtF 2E, p. 77
            WOUNDS
            Some shoals become so damaged the Hisil ruptures, opening holes to somewhere else in the midst of tortured landscapes filled with the most negative, destructive spirits. Wounds open at sites of atrocities and prolonged cruelty, suffering, and hatred — gulags, torture chambers, or sites that have seen genocide and ethnic cleansing. Spirits of pain, hatred, violence, and every other sort of malevolent conceptual spirit flock to Wounds, but the resonance flowing from the wound itself is not that of the material world. Spirits of any sort feeding from a Wound become tainted, twisted, and violent, overcome by the negative energies found within. Packs avoid Wounds unless they have to — to hunt a powerful spirit lairing inside, or to try to counteract and heal the Wound by changing the material world.
            I run my Werewolf game based on 1E cosmology - so this Wound is related to Inferno in my game - but I have a problem with new previewed interpretation of Bale Hounds from Shunned By Moon that can maybe point that 2E Hounds are not reflecting Inferno dimension now, as it's defined by being humanocentric evil realm...

            Originally posted by Acrozatarim View Post
            Bale Hounds are no longer divided up by their allegiance to Maeljin dedicated to corruption of human values (ie the Vices Plus Two of the old approach) - instead, they're defined by the corruption of particular *Uratha* values.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
              I run my Werewolf game based on 1E cosmology - so this Wound is related to Inferno in my game - but I have a problem with new previewed interpretation of Bale Hounds from Shunned By Moon that can maybe point that 2E Hounds are not reflecting Inferno dimension now, as it's defined by being humanocentric evil realm... (confused)

              So don't use it.

              EDIT: Also, did you mean to say it's now defined by not being humanocentric evil?
              Last edited by ArcaneArts; 09-05-2018, 06:11 PM.


              Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
              Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                I run my Werewolf game based on 1E cosmology - so this Wound is related to Inferno in my game - but I have a problem with new previewed interpretation of Bale Hounds from Shunned By Moon that can maybe point that 2E Hounds are not reflecting Inferno dimension now, as it's defined by being humanocentric evil realm... :confused
                It's still a ways off though. Why not just go with the original setting you were going to use until a few days ago?


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michael View Post
                  It's still a ways off though. Why not just go with the original setting you were going to use until a few days ago?
                  It was just side note on new Bale Hounds ideas. I still goes with 1E cosmology interpretation, especially as I have NPC Bale Hounds ready for it from two years now.


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                  • #10
                    As this whole scene - and plot - is inspired by the Hela and Helheim myths from Norse - I think about using 'ghosts breach' event, with restless dead floating the area as 'slaves of Hela' in tales of Scandinavia. Pointing to this - Floating ghosts in area with No-Gauntlet should be automatically Materialized? Or they would only be in Twilight? Probably first than second - other way wolves would not see them in the first place, right?


                    LGBT+ in CoD games
                    Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
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                    Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                    My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                      As this whole scene - and plot - is inspired by the Hela and Helheim myths from Norse - I think about using 'ghosts breach' event, with restless dead floating the area as 'slaves of Hela' in tales of Scandinavia. Pointing to this - Floating ghosts in area with No-Gauntlet should be automatically Materialized? Or they would only be in Twilight? Probably first than second - other way wolves would not see them in the first place, right?
                      Ghosts don't interact with the Gauntlet - that is a Spirit only thing.

                      What about making Loki or Hela an Idigam? Loki was a shape-changing trickster, bound to the Earth. Hela, Jorgrmandr, and Fenrir could be argued to be particularly badassed Forged Servants. Or lesser Idigam? If Hela is Idigam, Draugr could be Servants similar to Empty Wolves, except with Ghosts shoved inside.


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                      • #12
                        Hel in this story is mad Bale Hound - being my fan made Black Spiral Dancer for CoD universe - where she believes she is literal Daughter of Loki after traumatic First Change. And she plans to summon Nidhogg as Dragon Idigam I prepared last year. ( Proper stats for Nidhogg like Form of Idigam )
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-08-2018, 11:16 PM.


                        LGBT+ in CoD games
                        Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
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                        • #13
                          Ephemeral entities in the material are automatically in Twilight. The Gauntlet has nothing to do with Twilight so non-spirit ephemeral entities function the same way as spirits (but on separate "frequencies" that requires Numina to interact with entities of a different type).


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                          • #14
                            Still, as we talk here about 'No-Gauntlet' Wound, and it's Bale Hound ex-Bone Shadow ( did I mentioned it before?) headquarter, assuming she just let loose ghost to be Materialized is not a big stretch. Some ritual or something. Or just after effect of summoning 'Nidhogg' - it is, in the end, Serpent dedicated to eating the Dead - Sinners, to be precise - in the end.

                            Wikipedia on Nidhogg: In historical Viking society, níð was a term for a social stigma implying the loss of honor and the status of a villain. Thus, its name might refer to its role as a horrific monster or in its action of chewing the corpses of the inhabitants of Náströnd: those guilty of murder, adultery, and oath-breaking, which Norse society considered among the worst possible crimes.

                            So from snipet of Wikipedia article I have idea what kind of ghosts may be summoned - I just have problem a bit HOW to portray them in scene, where to put the Dead in it. So each one of PCs enters 'The Labyrinth' in different part and need to find others. As they are almost blind on it, they need to roll something - probably Wits+Survival, as classical tracking roll, with big penalties? If roll is not success, they meet one of local ghosts? If it's Dramatic Failure, the meet ghost of murderer that is violent and as it's Materialized - it can attack him? Something like that sounds good?


                            LGBT+ in CoD games
                            Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                            Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                            Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                            My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                            • #15
                              You could place the whole thing on a Stygian Verge if you really need to explain how ghosts materialize, it would certainly be appropriate for a Hela wanna be. Such a verge could be at the site of an ancient massacre.
                              Rolling to find each other and making failures meeting a ghost instead could work, but making a Dramatic Failure a requirement to meet a violent ghost will probably end in a very peaceful trip. I would instead make the type of ghost encountered totally random, maybe even make a chart ranging from dishonest butchers to violent cannibals.

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