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2nd Edition quesiton for a 1.5E player

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  • 2nd Edition quesiton for a 1.5E player

    Hey all!

    Long time player of what used to be known as nWoD and just coming back after about a 3 year hiatus with all this 2nd Edition stuff rolling off the pipeline. In general, do you feel the 2nd edition feels balanced when it comes to pc/npc interactions through social or physical encounters?

    I have never really played any game system when it comes to things such as status effects/tilts and the concept is a bit daunting to me. I'm also a bit apprehensive on this whole new experience system.

    Any feedback would be appreciated since I would begin creating a new game soon and need to decide to go with the old 1.5E I know, or try and move into the new 2E system.

  • #2
    Switching over was a bit of a change, and I tend not to use a lot of the social rules and instead leave it to RP at the table, but over all I consider 2E to be an improvement and worth the change.

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    • #3
      Conditions and Tilts seem daunting (as they are another "system") but in actuality, they simplify things. They are basically the ad-hoc "target suffers X effect" powers consolidated into their own thing that can be tracked other than notes on a page.

      XP is more streamlined. You don't have ever increasing costs - everything is flat XP now. 1 dot Merit is 1XP. 3 dot Merit is 3XP. Beats are basically partial XP (5 turn into 1 XP), and are awarded for playing into the drama/narrative by going along with the Conditions, pursuing Aspirations (personal goals), or voluntarily turning Failures into Dramatic Failures.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
        Conditions and Tilts seem daunting (as they are another "system") but in actuality, they simplify things. They are basically the ad-hoc "target suffers X effect" powers consolidated into their own thing that can be tracked other than notes on a page.
        On that note, do you find tilts to be balanced? Or does a single lucky hit cheese the fight so everyone always attempts that type of tilt?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sanaelar View Post

          On that note, do you find tilts to be balanced? Or does a single lucky hit cheese the fight so everyone always attempts that type of tilt?
          Do you have a Tilt and target in mind? Some supernaturals have sensory compensation traits, Demon's have some Form Abilities that negate or reduce the impact of some personal and Environmental Tilts. Environmental Tilts generally affect everyone (though Beasts can usually ignore those that match their Lair Traits).

          It is largely going to depend on circumstances. Insensate on a single combatant is death. But taking one out of a mob may only be a momentary hiccup.


          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sanaelar View Post

            On that note, do you find tilts to be balanced? Or does a single lucky hit cheese the fight so everyone always attempts that type of tilt?
            It depends a lot on who you are and who you are fighting. For mortals, the tactic of "shooting them with the biggest gun you can get your hands on" is still basically the most effective if you are trying to kill things, especially with the new way weapon damage works. There isn't much point to aim for the head (for example) since you stun a normal person with 5 damage anyway, and a talented fighter can fairly reliably kill their target in one or two turns.

            Supernaturals change things, but there are a lot of different supernaturals with a lot of different abilities and talents. As a general rule, they are typically fairly balanced, given that they usually sacrifice something else you could do or inflict a penalty that may or may not be worth it. For example, you could throw sand in someone's eyes to blind them, but you could fail and have to spend a turn on it. You could also shoot them in the eyes, which will do damage in addition to blinding/stunning them, but it takes -5 dice which could just go to damage. Since a human target has 6-10 health usually, and that 5 dice will have an average of 1.67 damage, and your weapon will add 1-5 successes, you have to decide if it is worth lowering your damage or even missing to give the enemy a -3 to attack you back, since the defence wouldn't apply to firearm attacks anyway. As you have to be fairly skilled to make that shot reliably, you are often better off just shooting them normally. If instead you are facing a powerful monster that can dodge bullets and only takes Bashing from them, aiming for crippling shots can be to your advantage. You might not be able to kill them reliably in one hit, but you could poke out their eyes letting your buddy get an easy shot in (at least until they heal it :P).

            Insensate isn't *that* bad. You still get your defence (its not like they get killing blows), can spend a WP to attack normally, and it goes away if you get hit. In white-room fights it is typically assumed you are using a WP per turn anyway, making it basically a -3 penalty for normal mortals. If you get hit by it and ran out of WP then it is over, unless you have a buddy to slap you out of it.

            Edit: Wow my writing is confusing today, sorry I couldn't be more clear >_>. We could always run some fights if you wanna see how it works yourself.
            Last edited by Ruger; 09-05-2018, 02:06 PM.

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            • #7
              Ruger, this was almost exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for that breakdown! My real concern is trying to craft encounters for my players which don't always result is turn 1-2 death for the NPC's. In NWoD this was pretty tricky and caused me to usually resort to big bad with tons of minions present rather than just a big bad by himself even when I would want it to be.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sanaelar View Post
                Ruger, this was almost exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for that breakdown! My real concern is trying to craft encounters for my players which don't always result is turn 1-2 death for the NPC's. In NWoD this was pretty tricky and caused me to usually resort to big bad with tons of minions present rather than just a big bad by himself even when I would want it to be.
                2E is a mixed bag when it comes to that, though a 1.5 player would be familiar with most of the things I'd talk about. 1.5/2E cut out a lot of the most overpowered combat moves (as in basically anything letting you attack twice in a turn. They have been reeeaaaaly careful about that), but the upgrade to weapon damage means that even an untrained fighter is dangerous. Someone with a 4 damage rifle will fill any human target with lethal in 2 hits maximum, unless they are wearing some serious armor. A powerful supernatural would be able to tank or dodge the hit, but unless the power gap is really wide they would still be at a disadvantage against a larger group (especially of combat oriented PCes).

                Most status effects/tilts don't really facilitate two-hit kills (though they can put the fight in your favor). Immobilize would probably be the most dangerous for that, though there is not really any good way to put someone in it (you either have to wrestle them into submission or use powerful supernatural abilities), as it prevents people from attacking/defending/whatever. Blinded and Stunned significantly reduce the target's defence, which could potentially allow for a much quicker kill for melee characters/against characters that can dodge bullets. Again you would take penalties for implementing Blind (another example would be a smoke grenade, with the penalty being you are also basically shooting blind even if you are outside of it), though Stunned comes along with any decent hit. There are several others that would let you win a fight, if not necessarily kill your opponent. If someone has two Arm Wrack tilts, like if you shot both his hands to the point they can't be used, then they lose unless they can heal quick enough to get back in the fight.

                You could use some of this to your advantage, for example having the bad guy throw a smoke grenade before starting the fight so everyone is fighting at -5/4/3 dice depending on their position, then get prone behind -3 concealment, and wear heavy armor. That would theoretically extend the fight, though your Big Bad with a group of minions strategy is more traditional.

                The system can be fairly rocket-taggy, and as someone who favors Hunter I usually end up facilitating/using that to my advantage rather than trying to avoid it, so I don't have a lot of experience with making longer fights >_>. Especially with many of the powerful supernatural splats. Is there a particular Splat you play the most?

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                • #9
                  Again, great breakdown of some of the issues I was concerned with (those multi-attack moves are hella broken in 1.5 and I outright ban Combat Marksmanship). In 1.5E I was a huge fan of Werewolf, but I am not quite as big on their 2E theme. So far my favorite of the 2E books has been Demon and Vampire and I am eagerly awaiting a chance to get my hands on Changeling.

                  Edit: To make clear, I haven't played any 2E splat yet, I have been trying to pump myself up to starting a new chronicle with new players with the new ruleset that I would need to learn and incorporate especially since never played with conditions, effects, and tilts before.

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