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  • Mortals and spirits

    Hi, I have a really basic question about spirits. Can mortals damage a spirit if it's manifested in the material realm and can they damage a spirit while being in the Shadow/Hisil?
    I already figured out normal human beings can probably banish or do an exoricism on a spirit to move it back to the shadow and they probably can't hurt them if the spirit is in Twilight. Some sort of magical weapon or holy damage could work as well, I guess.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jan Paparazzi View Post
    Can mortals damage a spirit if it's manifested in the material realm
    Depends on how they've manifested. If Materialized, yes. Otherwise no.

    Originally posted by Jan Paparazzi View Post
    and can they damage a spirit while being in the Shadow/Hisil?
    If they're both in the Shadow, yes.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #3
      Yes.

      From Chronicles of Darkness, p129, 'Physical attacks on a Manifested entity that would normally cause lethal damage only cause bashing damage unless the attack utilizes the entity’s bane. Despite appearing to the naked eye and being solid, a Manifested spirit, ghost, or angel doesn’t have any internal organs to injure.'

      If the mortals are in the Hisil (the physical world is called the Gurihal, I'm not sure of any proper term for it beyond physical world), you use the same rules. Werewolf the Forsaken, p186, 'Physical attacks on a Manifest spirit, or one in the Hisil, that would normally cause lethal damage only cause bashing damage unless the attack utilizes the spirit’s bane. Even a spirit that’s solid to its attacker doesn’t have any internal organs to injure.'

      You can use a bane to damage a spirit in Twilight. Chronicles of Darkness p128, 'Touching the bane while in Twilight causes a point of lethal damage per turn to non-Manifested entities.'

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      • #4
        Another question. Has anyone done something with the concept of mages/sorcerors/witches tapping off essence from the Shadow to use as fuel for their magic, but with a corrupting effect on the people who use it this way? Slowly turning them evil or insane.

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        • #5
          It is possible for a Mage to convert Essence into Mana, as for it twisting the Mage I guess if the Resonance of the Essence was harmful then that Resonance could begin to taint and express itself in the Mage's magic, especially long term spells that have time to effect their surroundings.
          Spend enough time around a particular Resonance and it will begin to change its environment. Werewolf deals with the concept when managing a territory, with anger spirits and other unhealthy sorts raising the number of violent incidents or suicides as their Resonance poisons the area.

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          • #6
            Acrozatarim, who is one of the writers on Werewolf: the Forsaken, has made an unofficial writeup of human Shadow occultists.

            Link

            There are no mechanics for corruption, but their powers leave a lot of room for abuse, which can be explored in play.

            He's written a lot of cool stuff on the forums, so I encourage you to search for his posts.


            ~

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            • #7
              Essence alone wouldn't make people turn evil.

              But Les Mysteres is a hunter conspiracy that are corrupted by the powers granted to them by spirits, becoming the pawns of said spirits.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by nofather View Post
                Essence alone wouldn't make people turn evil.

                But Les Mysteres is a hunter conspiracy that are corrupted by the powers granted to them by spirits, becoming the pawns of said spirits.

                No. There is no mention about corruption as a side effect of Cheval. They have been merely misled by spirits, because of their ignorance regarding the role of werewolves as a border police between Shadow and Material Realms.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Raistlin View Post
                  They have been merely misled by spirits, because of their ignorance regarding the role of werewolves as a border police between Shadow and Material Realms.
                  This is what I'm referring to. Though it's more than just being misled, the conspiracy is effectively a cult that empowers these spirits, further encouraging the conspiracy to commit murder.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                    Depends on how they've manifested. If Materialized, yes. Otherwise no.


                    If they're both in the Shadow, yes.
                    Also depends how they are trying. Salt can be used to harm ghost even when not Materialized, TFV has special bullets that can theoretically be used by anyone, Banes work even for non-manifested things, and there is always Blessed objects.

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                    • #11
                      I am trying to fiddle around with a setting idea which is kinda Cthullhu and Silent Hill inspired (and of course WoD) which focuses on investigators/hunters, spirits and cultists/witches/sorcerors. Pretty much the Shadow or spirit world, some people who want to investigate it and protect humanity from it's dangers and people who either serve the spirits or want to use them for their own benefit.

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                      • #12
                        Since that's about half the theme of Werewolf the Forsaken you might look there.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ruger View Post
                          Salt can be used to harm ghost even when not Materialized
                          Source? I don't remember any mention of salt as a universal bane of ghosts a la Supernatural.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
                            Source? I don't remember any mention of salt as a universal bane of ghosts a la Supernatural.
                            It's from the bridge between first and second edition, the old World of Darkness, featuring the God Machine Chronicle.

                            'If salt is integrated into a weapon, for example in buckshot, the weapon becomes able to harm ghosts. Any successful hit causes the ghost to lose Corpus equal to the successes rolled (the damage rating of the weapon does not add to this) and forces the ghost to Discorporate for that many turns. Note, however, that the weapon or ammunition doesn’t stop at the ghost. A character who shoots a shotgun loaded with rock salt at a Manifested phantom might damage it, but will also damage whatever is behind it.'

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                            • #15
                              It's not specified as a Bane so I'd imagine it only deals bashing and not lethal or aggravated damage.


                              Bloodline: The Stygians
                              Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                              Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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