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  • High-powered template combination for fun and profit

    An OP thought experiment that may be useful to me as inspiration for a game scenario. This is the nWoD version of the scenario. Let's assume one day a godlike entity appears to you and makes you an offer you cannot refuse: you shall be reborn in the nWoD setting with your memories intact as the unholy combination of two or more major supernatural templates, with a few extra special benefits thrown in the package. Valid options for the templates you may choose include vampire, werewolf, mage, sin-eater, promethean, changeling, demon, and beast. Mortal, hunter, or minor templates are not allowed since they are not supernatural enough and mummy is strongly frowned upon since its rebirth life cycle would probably make management of the combination too complex (but if you can suggest a good way to make it work, no problem).

    You get five template slots to spend; mage, demon, and mummy (if allowed at all) cost double and you must have at least two templates. You also can spend one slot to buy one extra special benefit after the first free choice (see below). No matter what your choices, you automatically become ageless if one of your template choices would not make you immortal by default. You get to create each of your template choices as if they were nWoD characters (abilities that are common to all nWoD templates are only chosen once, specific supernatural powers are picked separately). You are also free to ignore any canon splat limitation in choosing your own supernatural powers, as if you were your own personal vampire Clan, mage Path, and so on. Your hybridization is successful even if the combination wouldn't make sense or should be self destructive. You keep access to all relevant stats for each template, and retain all pools separately.

    You choose one of the following special benefits for free (and can pick a second one by sacrificing one of your template slots): 1) you gain a substantial amount of extra Xp to be distributed among your templates as your prefer, roughly equivalent to a vampire elder. 2) All the power pools that power your templates' supernatural powers now naturally regenerate. Your pools shall fully recharge once per day by performing a quick ritual, or once per hour by spending an equivalent time into meditation. 3) You become much harder to damage with physical attacks than you would otherwise be and any supernatural weaknesses you have because of your templates are lessened in intensity, causing pain instead of physical damage or crippling agony, or being downgraded to the most similar mundane source of damage. Paradox cannot cause bodily damage or long-lasting physical transformations to you. 4) Your sanity and sense of identity become stronger, more resilient, and more flexible than it would otherwise be. Only the most inhumane actions, severest traumas, and most extreme violations of your templates' Morality meters can even dent your psyche. You become immune to anything that would inspire supernatural confusion, insanity, rage, or fear, and cannot devolve into a mindless bestial creature, or forget about your supernatural existence.

    You shall suffer no drawback because of your innatural existence, apart from getting several supernatural factions and organizations hell-bent on destroying you, enslaving you, or making you subject to ruthless experiments in order to discover the secret of your power.
    Last edited by Irioth; 02-03-2019, 08:13 PM.

  • #2
    So I had actually been playing with some similar concepts of late... far more broken, of course (I was curious what happens if you take a mortal character through the first four steps, and then add in just about every 2E major and minor template, and some of the 1E ones that haven't been translated, save for a few of the Hurt Locker ones - basically the ones that aren't Atariya and Psychic Vampire). I also had a similar idea surrounding just doing the Minor templates and seeing how that turns out (it's... weird). Also, the whole "slots" thing and how some are a bit "bigger" than others is kind of cool to me - reminds me of the .hack//G.U. games, where the Adept Rogue was a Red Mage-style class that could have multiple regular classes, but advanced in each more slowly, and each took up a certain number of slots so that the most you could get was 3, and that's if you didn't take any spellcasting classes (of course, the main character already has his three decked out, but still).

    So.... hmmm... let me break it down by types and weight things.

    There are THREE ways I can easily think of that could possibly make Mummy work. One is the one I was using in MY experiment: you've achieved Apotheosis. No higher level Utterances, Sekhem 1, pretty low level... but you can take all the Pillars you want (and depending on how you do the rules for Apotheosis, you already should have at least two at 5). The other is from a LARP that ran until a couple of years ago in the Mind's Eye Society, called Accord. It was... sort of what Contagion Chronicle looks to be - all the playable supernaturals of the time (this was late 1E, so the main lines all existed, plus splat-tied Minor templates, Second Sight, Inferno, Changing Breeds, and a few other things) were in the Accord to fight something called "The Truth," which was infecting reality. Knowing about the Truth made you a Believer, which meant that if you died you powered the Truth. It was gonzo in every sense of the word (it also made the MES realize that the next time they did crossover settings, they should probably leave a few splats on the cutting room floor so that the ST only had so much to deal with (the addenda/org house rules for Accord were rivaled only by the ones for the old MET Werewolf game happening at the same time, which incorporated MET Werewolf AND MET Vampire and Mage as Antagonists [including all the Clan and Tribebooks], and they did that. So the game I run now "only" has Vampire, Werewolf, Beast, Mage, Changeling, lesser templates tied to those groups, psychics, and Stigmatics... but at least only like three of those games have supplements thus far? But I digress.) To help Mummy out, they said that the presence of the Truth had disrupted the standard cycle; all mummies were built standard, so Sekhem 1, Memory 7, and everything else at base, and you bought up Sekhem like any other power stat. The third way is to have a really loyal cult that calls you back to help with minor but persistent stuff every time you fall asleep (look, if I know the rules I'm playing by, I will get a Cult that will wake me up to keep trying to get Firefly back on the air as my First Purpose).

    But, not sure I would go with Mummy or not anyways. Only ONE of those options promises long-term power without heavy drawbacks, not enough to be worth two slots likely.

    Looking at just the templates mentioned... I'd almost certainly go with Mage. It takes two slots, but it's also really, REALLY good and helpful and it should take up two slots. Probably go Guardian of the Veil to get Masques if I can avoid them wanting to dissect me (best Order merit in the game, IMO, and top five contender for just best merit). Probably would focus on Fate, Mind, and Life magic (Mind and Life for buffs, Life for Life extension in case I don't end up with a splat that makes me immortal, since at the time I'm writing this I'm torn, and Fate because HAVE YOU READ FATE?), with Time and Space in there when possible (and eventually get all of them). Death, Forces, or Matter would probably be my Inferior choice... Forces probably most likely, if not for the fact that it would allow me to ignore the weather when it's annoying (and the level 4 attainment just gives any Environmental Tilts the finger - it is, for instance, a hard counter to Firestorms), and because of... well, you'll see.

    (As a side note, even if Minor Templates WERE on the table, I would probably give Proximus a pass. Unless I could find a large supply of Imbued Items and Artifacts, their magic is almost impossible to use without risking serious consequences in 2E. If I HAD to pick one, I'd probably pick Essers, because they actually don't have a "Greater" Curse to trigger with Paradox as written).

    Sin-Eater and Changeling both feel like they're calling to me... but the version of Sin-Eater could make a difference. First Edition, I would not hesitate (I took a look at the Synergy sins recently and tried to imagine how bad it would be for me if I was a Sin Eater... I think I figured I could stay around Synergy 8 unless someone close to me died and tempted me to bring them back, or shit just got weird). I'm less sure about 2E Sin-Eater, but that's also because I haven't read it as thoroughly. I mean... I probably WOULDN'T say no, but they definitely feel different and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

    Changelings, OTOH, have a lot of cool things to them. Many of the contracts are awesome, their fuel stat is easy to replenish (even with the new difficulties and side-effects added in, it's probably still flat out the easiest). Plus, Mantle and Goodwill are both really, really handy, especially with Mantle being a 1-5 and Goodwill giving you Mantle benefits. And Sealing... mmm... I love me some Sealing. But, I'm a bit concerned about Clarity. Further, if I AM a mage, many of the Contracts are things that I could eventually emulate. Admittedly, that can be said for just about anything, but it does make me a tad bit hesitant. Also, Oaths ARE really hard to deal with in this system if they get tricky around you, which could be a deterrent. But... very high on my list. And they are probably the least likely to bat an eye if you do weird shit unless it's shit the True Fae do.

    Beasts... hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... REAL tempting as well. The only issue I have with taking Beast is that, on an OOC level, I am not actually real sure I get some of their mechanics with regards to Lairs and how their feeding draws Heroes. If we're playing it as written, where *I* am the one going into the Chronicles universe with my knowledge, I'd be real hesitant to take on those aspects for that reason. On the other hand, though... Atavisms are broken and really, really awesome. Eye of Heaven: get to know secrets about anyone you look at, no roll, no cost (though, my interpretation tells me that this also means I would read any false versions instead unless I had a way to tell if there was magical deception... the power doesn't say it triggers any clashes, so that also means it probably doesn't GET to clash with a liar's effect. But that's also fixable with, say Pierce Deception). However, this crossover thing does create a little loophole - since you create each template as a separate character, that technically means you could Family Ties yourself two or three times (unless you go Demon/Mage/Beast and then you can only do it once). This means Kinship Nightmares, but also Family Dinner. And Beasts do have a LOT of awesome merits. Further, the Beasts aren't really going to care that you're an unholy abomination, except maybe if one of those things is Demon. And speaking of which...

    Demons are also tempting... but the God Machine and it taking two slots makes it a bit costly for my tastes. If I went Demon, I'd probably go Embed-focused Inquisitor, with a Dual Agenda into Tempter. Collect all the Beats from the Conditions and Resolutions thereof. With Embeds as a focus, especially Mundane Embeds, I am far less likely to draw attention from the big GM. I would probably keep my Primum low, never above 5, and work to get lots of little bits from Pacts over time to build up patchworks in the background. And again, several cool Merits to pick up, plus Demonic Form and Interlocks... mmmm.... Demon is a definite maybe. At two slots it feels too expensive.

    Vampire is... this is probably the most conditional of any of them. The conditions being that: a) I'd probably need to emphasize in Death and Forces magic or have another form of regeneration and/or damage reduction; and, b) it would depend on how likely I am to be able to infiltrate the Covenants. On one hand, Death is not one of my favorite Arcana; on the other hand, though, it could be used to achieve Life effects on me if I'm already dead, so the benefits of Life are less immediately useful (though still handy for philanthropic purposes). Similarly, I'm not a big fan of the general Forces Arcanum (I like some of the ideas and effects, but not when Paradox and Disbelief can cause me to fall out of the sky), but the Forces 4 attainment and some of the other spells also could be better than an SPF 1000 sunblock.
    But. Vampire has a lot of really good temptations. Although Disciplines are really static effects, they also are really powerful in 2E. 2E Auspex 1-3 are major innovations on the fairly standard versions of those powers from not only 1E but every version of Masquerade. And the physical disciplines get a major upgrade from 1E (though WoD Celerity and Fortitude may be preferable, I'm cool with these versions). Add in Praestantia, and they can make you really kick-ass and not even need to worry about buffing yourself physically with Arcana (though you probably still need Death 2 and 3 to heal up). Further, VtR2E has more supplements than the other game lines save for Demon (which technically came out BEFORE the rest of 2E), and with it comes all sorts of cool merits (can you tell that I like Merits?) Of course, you'd probably need a constant Alt ID to infiltrate the Covenants, and you really need to infiltrate the Ordo to get Coils (especially Zirnitra, which lets you then buy Psychic merits, which technically could include Atariya). And infiltrating any other group is potentially helpful if you can avoid getting caught.... the Invictus merits are especially handy things to have (Travel Agent is especially a favorite). So, ultimately, it would depend on how likely it is that I can avoid being picked out by others and turned into a science experiment.

    Promethean is... hmmm... 2E Promethean is a marked improvement from 1E, don't get me wrong. I would not want to be a Promethean usually, but if I had to pick, 2E any day of damn week. And they have two merits I love - Vivid Dreams (love me more Aspirations and visions), and Driven (because FIVE FREE POSITIVE CONDITIONS IS REALLY GOOD, Y'ALL). But the drawbacks, plus the fact that it will end one way or another, unless I can come up with more roles than the book provides, makes it not really worth it for me.

    And then there's werewolf. Again... hmmm... Kuruth CAN be a problem. On the other hand, it's kind of the only problem? Oh. No, it isn't. There's one more:
    Werewolves are XP guzzlers. Like... if Experiences were fuel, werewolves would make Hummers look like Prius'. You need to buy five renowns, PLUS a Power Stat, and as far as Power Stats go, it's definitely not my favorite. Like... I play one in a game right now, and I am thinking MAYBE Primal Urge 3, since I am already at 2, but not any higher. Now, if I could draw upon some 1E merits as well, it'd be a bit more promising (especially Chronicler's Guide - there's the "Lone Wolf" section in there that gives you a Personal Totem and the ability to take Spirits as Retainers). And 2E Lodges ARE really sweet, especially if you get one with Lodge Sorcery. But you're also likely to end up as viable prey to a minimum of two tribes. But also, if you are in a Pack, that may dissuade others (except those assholes in the Lodge of Garm), especially if they are an open minded pack that already embraces the Other. So they're not off the list altogether, but they are a bit iffy.

    Okay... so looking at what we have here, we're discarding two of the three (and a half) of the dead guy templates. Gut feeling says these are the rankings:
    1. Mage
    2. Beast
    3. Changeling
    4. Vampire
    4 (tied). Demon
    6. Werewolf
    7. Sin Eater

    Okay... let's go ahead and take SE off the list too. We do have 2E rules for them now and those are what we'd be using in this scenario. So that leaves us six, but two of those are 2-slot templates.

    Let's also consider the special effects, since two of them may call out enough to make me decide to forgo another slot:
    1. Really, REALLY useful. (As a side note, I love how the rules for simulating a Mage without the Mage rules in Thousand Years of Night was "Just make an Elder Vampire with everything except for Devotions).
    2. Oooooooohhhhhhhhh... I like this one. Especially with Beast and Vampire (and really, all of them except maybe Changeling).
    3. Hmmmm... this is useful, but if we're assuming again that *I* am the one going into this world, I could likely come up with ways to mitigate those effects if not eliminate them altogether. See Forces/Death Mage helping save the Vampire. Similarly, I'm likely to avoid triggering Paradox whenever possible, so it's less of a worry for me.
    4. So... This is a really good one. I know that some of the Integrity things are easy to avoid if you know what you're doing and are willing to be a cheeseweasel (and if I'm living this, I am going to be a cheeseweasel). On the other hand, that also means a lot fewer Beats. And, with Beasts being a leading contender for a Template, this does become marginally less useful (since it's one less thing to need).

    Okay... I am going to go to bed and this may change by tomorrow. But I think my lists are as follows:

    Option 1: Mage, Beast, Vampire. Special Options 1 and 2. This lets me "Feed" without having to feed, preserving my Humanity and possibly Wisdom (and lessening the need for option 4) and making Blood Potency less of a problem overall. The biggest issue here is the chance of discovery, since both Mages and Vampires have really intraconnected societies and it'd be tricky to navigate both. I would need to go into Alt IDs and join the Orders and Covenants alike - at least Ordo 1 for Coils and Guardians 1 for Masque, and probably Invictus 2 on that side as well (but also possibly Carthian 2, so you can then buy Right of Return and get more benefits... but then, you're more scrutinized so that is a problem). Thankfully Family Resemblance would keep me well hidden. The higher Experience level is needed to be able to buy up the Coils and Arcana I need to survive, and then flesh out the rest later. Arcana probably are Death and Fate Ruling, and a lot of Forces on the side to start. Disciplines would probably be Praestantia, Auspex, and... I'm not sure on the third. Possibly something Bloodline specific. Then again, it does say I can ignore any canon limitation, which would allow me to pick three disciplines to be my in-clans, but learn any others. But the utility of that would depend on if we're counting 1E bloodlines and/or 2e Bloodline gifts as options. If we WERE allowing 1E Bloodline disciplines to be purchased in this mess, I'd also buy Nahdad - the ability to just call up Havens on the fly is not to be discounted.
    Option 2: Mage, Beast, Changeling. Options 1 and 4. Being able to ignore mental issues is super helpful in this build. You still need to feed your Beast, but your ability to Harvest Glamour plus Family Dinner means it's far easier to manage. And all that Experience makes you a good candidate for Apex and Incarnation.
    Option 3: Mage, Beast, Demon. Option 4. Option 4 is appealing because it keeps your Cover safe from all but the worst of the worst Compromises. You'd have less Experience to start, but you could move around fairly safely - Spoofing and Family Resemblance both mean that you can better hide what you are from prying eyes, making it less likely that you'll be on the run. Also, these three are fairly efficient in Experience terms - you get four Embeds/Exploits (so probably 3 Embeds and 1 Exploit), six dots of Arcana, two Nightmares, and two Atavisms. This gives you access to a lot of neat abilities that help fill in the gaps with each other - Demon and Beast provide Paradox-free powers, Mage provides a lot of flexibility in powers that all other templates lack; all three have powers that let them hide their true natures, which could create interesting stacks of protection from detection; and, you can get a real good selection of Merits around. You also only have to worry about infiltrating ONE supernatural society this way (though, with Beast, you could tie into others as you find them). And, this gives you three cults potentially - a Primordial Cult, a Demonic Cult, and a Mystery Cult (two, if you buy both Initiation AND Influence). Also, you could use Show of Power to emulate the powers of the other splats as you encounter them, and without risk of Compromise to boot.
    There's one weakness to this: of all the options, this is the most Fuel-heavy build. Even if you aren't regularly spending mana, you'd need to find sources of it and fast. This doesn't give a real way to "Family Dinner' unless you count oblations as feeding, so you may have to prey on others. And though Compromise isn't an issue, you still need to deal with the God Machine to acquire Aether sources (it's less important if you stick with Embeds... but you still need it).

    Will need to consider this...

    Comment


    • #3
      Didn't you do almost exactly this thread premise already?

      Like, cheers for getting to the point faster, but this is still a pretty dull and mechanically overinvolved way to ask the personality-quiz question of "What's your preferred way to play a me-against-the-world dropped-in-at-the-deep-end-of-setting-weight story about a Unique Monstrous Specimen that would probably be in an extremely niche Night Horrors book if it weren't a PC?"

      If I'm to engage at all with the premise that this nightmarish mashup is mechanically equivalent to overlapping two different character sheets and adding a benefit that, bonus XP aside, draws from a short list of answers to "Which category of major narrative device do you want to completely remove from these games about monsters with weird occult quirks and limits?" then I'm going to take the extra Experiences and put them into being a Begotten-Bound with a well-stocked Lair, a dense library of Ceremonies, and a solid brood/krewe hybrid backing my claim as Apex of a mid-sized town with suspiciously good Wifi, because I'm not interested in picking between juggling five different Integrity analogues and completely removing them from consideration.

      I'll take the hit of having to address a lot of awkward questions from Sin-Eaters about suspicious immortality because I have no say in that aspect and it's orthogonal to my interests, but I don't need the other three template slots to make an interesting concept out of characters from the skeleton game and the crossover drop-in friends getting smushed together around a core of common magic.


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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      • #4
        cross templates just dont work, too many mechanics to work with. and a complete mess thematically. the only thing I could see from such a chimera is an extremely twisted Deviant

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, it is true I tend to be overly fond of this kind of personality-quiz scenario, and one may often be driven to revisit one's preferred stories again and again, but there is a specific reason I felt driven to start this thread (and its sister one in the oWoD forum) this time. I recently got myself involved with Jumpchain CYOAs (for those not in the know, a kind of extended solo game where your universe-hopping avatar experiences many adventures in a lot of different fictional settings of your choice, both generic genres and specific franchises, collecting powers, skills, items, and companions along the way, until the character ultimately transcends as a multiverse-roaming godlike entity). Two of the many Jump scenarioes available are 'omnibus' versions of the nWoD/oWoD settings where playing a high-powered hybrid of various supernatural templates is one main character option. I definitely liked the idea, but I found myself uncertain and creatively challenged about which templates to pick for the combo, so I thought of tapping the collective wisdom of this board for inspiration. EndlessKng's comprehensive analysis of the various options is exactly the kind of guidance I was looking for.

          I applied my own adjustments to the scenario to suit my own transhumanist tastes (e.g. mortals, hunters, and minor templates being forbidden as options, and automatic immortality being available regardless of template choice), but I picked certain ideas (with a few tweaks) from the original Jump document, such as mage, demon, and mummy costing more than the other supernatural templates (although the original Jumpchain rules do apply a finer-grain three-digit cost scale to character options) and the broad features of the four special benefits (I left out a few other options that seemed not so interesting, at least for my character-creation purposes, or easy to adapt to WoD rules).
          Last edited by Irioth; 02-05-2019, 03:20 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Irioth View Post
            EndlessKng's comprehensive analysis of the various options is exactly the kind of guidance I was looking for.
            Well damn. Like... when I said I did a lot of this lately, I mean that this has been a thought in one form or another since November, and I have literally devoted most of my free time to experimenting with this... so that's actually kind of cool. Mind, I have some alternative ideas of how this could play out... but it's a fun thought experiment anyways and I like the challenge of having constraints that I CAN'T arbitrarily change. (Also, if you haven't checked it out, look up John Wick's "The Flux." At one point I think he made it free but it may not be. But given what you described, you might find it interesting - it's a sort of "Meta-RPG" you use alongside other games, where your characters get caught up in reality shifts that take them between different worlds and usually systems... but they can remember and access some of the powers from other games at a price, and with increased difficulty the further back you have to go to get the power in question, and the universe doesn't like rules that are alien to it...).

            Gave some more thought to mummy and maybe shouldn't have dismissed it so readily. The various ways I brought up to make it happen are still valid, but the cost-benefit ratio does deserve a little more consideration.

            So... the Apotheosis option still doesn't balance well in this equation. Now, in real life, if I were told "You can either continue being you or you can continue being you but also get the powers of a Sekhem 1, Memory 7 mummy with two Pillars at five dots and the ability to buy more," I'm taking that. It's an improvement over being mortal. And some of the Affinities are HELLA useful. But in THIS scenario, it's not worth two of your slots for it. Most of what the Affinities get you you can figure out with magic, save the "Difficulty Number Reduction" aspect (and then you just ritual cast a Potency 10 Quantum Flux on yourself with a month-long Duration and use that to buff the potency on all the rest of your spells (and just... life) without penalty, and you get a similar amount of extra oomph. (You think I'm joking, but this is the foundation for a daisy chain of broken downtime castings in an ongoing campaign that I know about... of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and something similar may be coming their way soon...). So in this scenario, this isn't the best use of it (if we were doing a similar game but with Minor Templates, though, it would be a solid two-slot option).

            So then there's the second option - just reverse the script. That works well enough and absolutely makes it worth two slots. LostLight did two mummy variants with "count up" power stats, the Vaettir, living sorcerers that focused on Relics and Utterances (and also gave them Influences which may have been a bit much), and a 2E version of the Visitors based on the entry from Dark Eras Companion that made it seem like the Visitors were more than just deluded psuedo-spirits, but rather were time-spanning alien overlords with access to affinities but not Utterances (EDIT: OOPS. Only Vaettir have rising Sekhem. Visitors lack Sekhem completely. Been a while since I read them; I'd been more curious about the Vaettir). Both of those show that the concept COULD work. The story idea could be that the Arisen tried to reincarnate into your body as the sacrifice, only for it to not really take over the way it was supposed to (in the Curse, they do have the option to try to do so if they die and their body doesn't exist anymore, only they get their Memory jacked with a bit as they incorporate the victim's... could just as easily work in reverse). Since you aren't bound to the Descent, you could stop the clock and turn it back. But it is thematically janky, and could be really overpowered - you aren't mean to stay at those high levels for long.

            By the rules, though, the last version of events could still be awesome. Most mummies don't like to be disturbed because they want to sleep. But it's entirely possible for one to go to their cult and say "Listen. If I die, come up with something you want me to deal with and call me back here." After a failed merger like I mentioned above (that they don't necessarily real is failed), you could easily cover up any strangeness by saying "It's the new body. Has a bit of a... mind of its own" and watching as your cultists laugh because they don't want you to curse them because the mummy that is now a part of you was both a cruel monster and really bad punster. This version also gives you less reason to worry about "squandering" Sekhem, since your cult know to call you back if you run out.

            In either option two or three, your biggest concerns in the Material world are fire and lifeless. Fire can be mitigated in some cases (and already is a bane for half the templates anyways, so odds are good you aren't ADDING anything weaknesswise in that category), but the Lifeless.. those bastards are a problem. You also may or may not have to deal with your judge, though. And that right there is the REAL reason I leave Mummy off the table - unless I know that the Judge I just inherited is willing to let it play out, I do not want to get involved in that.

            Looking at the options I wrote originally, I think Option two would be my first choice. Changeling Oath stuff can be a huge problem down the line, but if you're careful you can avoid getting TOO entangled in anything problematic. Option one would be my second choice, but the fact that it forces me to take two Arcana I would rather not focus on right away does that one in overall. That said, I think I'll try building them out to see where we end up in case that changes my mind.

            Will start off my building for options one and two first, but won't finish either tonight. Early ideas built around using "me" as the concept for option 2: Probably focusing on Mind, Life, and Fate as I mentioned. Seeming is iffy - still don't get them in 2.0 all that well. I know that Jewels and Crown are my fave regalia, though, so Fairest and Wizened seem likely. Court will depend on local structure, but Spring and Autumn seem possible - Spring if I choose what I want to enjoy and change about life, Autumn to focus on what I'm already good at (and it does provide ways to clear goblin debt and interact with supernaturals... so it's got an interesting edge). As a Beast... not sure about the Family. But I think Secrets would be my Hunger.

            In the Option 1 scenario, probably need to make my ruling Death and Forces, with a strong Fate contingent. Would probably pick Life as my Inferior in this case. Sticking to just the "full disciplines" in 2E (no bloodline gifts, just the 10 in the core and Praestantia, but all learnable freely and without tutelage), I would probably go Auspex, Praestantia, and probably Majesty. Beast is likely still secrets-hungry, though. Will probably buy Eye of Heaven, so that I can stack it with Auspex and Mage Sight to read a person thoroughly. As mentioned, would go Ordo to develop Coils of the Ascendant and Zirnitra, and use the latter to pick up all sorts of fun toys.

            Will consider further later. For now, bed.
            Last edited by EndlessKng; 02-05-2019, 12:29 AM.

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            • #7
              Beast, Demon, and Mage, option 2.

              Alternative: Beast, Mage, and Vampire, options 2 and 3.

              Either way, I should be tough enough not to need tons of EXP off the bat.

              Do we get to choose what Virtue/Vice analogue take precedence? Are power traits all separate, or folded into a single trait? Should power polls be folded into a single pool?
              Last edited by Gallus; 02-05-2019, 05:27 PM.


              SWTOR Referal: http://www.swtor.com/r/JQ2nqy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gallus View Post

                Do we get to choose what Virtue/Vice analogue take precedence? Are power traits all separate, or folded into a single trait? Should power polls be folded into a single pool?
                1) I suppose so.
                2) All separate.
                3) All separate as well (but all of them regenerate at once if you pick option 2, it is one of the latter's big perks). I suppose there should be ways to shift/convert mystic energy from one power pool to the other, I have not yet given much thought to the issue.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gallus View Post
                  Beast, Demon, and Mage, option 2.

                  Alternative: Beast, Mage, and Vampire, options 2 and 3.

                  Either way, I should be tough enough not to need tons of EXP off the bat.

                  Do we get to choose what Virtue/Vice analogue take precedence? Are power traits all separate, or folded into a single trait? Should power polls be folded into a single pool?

                  So my read is that all power stats and fuels are separate. You have one pool of Willpower, but, in your examples, you'd be keeping your Satiety, Mana, and Vitae/Aether separate, as well as Lair, Gnosis, and BP/Primum. The board won't let me copy, but it does say that "you keep all relevant traits and pools remain separate."

                  As for the V/V Analogues, I think that you get any and all unique ones, which does create ways to play you more easily (since Social Maneuvering would have more things to play with - unless you are just a Demon/Mage, and only have a Virtue and Vice), but also gives you more flexibility in pursuing things. You similarly probably would have touchstones for each type as appropriate - though the trait is the same technically, it attaches in different ways and can represent different things since each one ties to a different Integrity.

                  But that's just my read.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EndlessKng View Post


                    So my read is that all power stats and fuels are separate. You have one pool of Willpower, but, in your examples, you'd be keeping your Satiety, Mana, and Vitae/Aether separate, as well as Lair, Gnosis, and BP/Primum. The board won't let me copy, but it does say that "you keep all relevant traits and pools remain separate."

                    As for the V/V Analogues, I think that you get any and all unique ones, which does create ways to play you more easily (since Social Maneuvering would have more things to play with - unless you are just a Demon/Mage, and only have a Virtue and Vice), but also gives you more flexibility in pursuing things. You similarly probably would have touchstones for each type as appropriate - though the trait is the same technically, it attaches in different ways and can represent different things since each one ties to a different Integrity.

                    But that's just my read.
                    I think your assessment is spot-on.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Irioth View Post

                      I think your assessment is spot-on.
                      Apparently got ninja'd by the OP. But glad I was accurate at least.

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                      • #12
                        Thinking about it, one could always use the Artifact merit for Mage to shore up and kind of weakness another splat may have, making Mage an even stranger pick, especially when paired with Vampire. Just get a second skin/symbiotic style Artifact that protects you from the Sun and other things.

                        This would make my choice Beast, Mage, Vampire, options 1 and 2. I considered Geist over Beast, but the passive power of Atavisms is too hard to pass up. Relentless Hunter and Unbreakable to start do wonders to boost one's chances to actually survive the CofD. Couple with Celerity and Mage Armor, you wont really have to worry about being killed short of area of effect obliteration.

                        So, elder vampire xp is at least 25, so:

                        Beast- Anakim: Extra health birth right; Hunger: Secrets; Atavisms; Relentless Hunter, Unbreakable; Nightmares: Behold, My true form!, Run Away
                        Mage- Ruling: Fate, Death; Inferior: Life; Arcana: Fate 3, Death 3; Extra Composure
                        Vampire- Mekhet: Blood of the Unwilling bane, extra Wits; Disciplines: Auspex 1, Celerity 1, Obfuscate 1

                        Merits: Artifact 8, Connected Lair 2, Nest Guardian , Ordo Dracul Status 4, Primordial Cult 2, Resources 5, Safe Place 3, Twilight Judge 3, Vast Lair 1, Well Stocked Lair 3
                        Last edited by Gallus; 02-06-2019, 09:29 PM.


                        SWTOR Referal: http://www.swtor.com/r/JQ2nqy

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                        • #13
                          Yeah I would go Mage and Beast also. Honestly the only thing holding mages back tends to be paradox and general squishiness. Having the atavisms can fix that easy. Get special option 2 and the most dangerous part of being a beast (feeding and attracting heros) gets lessened. The way I would play it is my Mage part would focus more on mind magic to help synergize with Beasts in the Primordial Dream. Also This way I can focus on Atavisms and Beast special merits instead of nightmares (which Mind can just mimic anyway).

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                          • #14
                            Okay, I've given this some thought and I think a pretty good character here.

                            I'd start with Vampire, probably Gangrel though maybe Deava. Start him off in the Victorian era, maybe as a poor punk who made his way into the wealthy aristocracy with wit and charm, give him a bunch of Vigor and maybe some Protean body horror devotions (because who doesn't love some body horror!). Anyway, he made a power grab, got carried away and a bunch of hunters took him out, nearly killed him.

                            Anyway, in the fight he and the hunters sink to the bottom of the ocean, where he's forced to rebuild his body, this gives him the Promethean template Probably a Frankenstein for the cool thematic synergy between vampire feeding and spare limbs, and give him some of the flux based body horror transmutations (after all, he basically gave up being human). Unfortunately the process of rebuilding is difficult and he's knocked into Torpor for like...I dunno, a hundred years.

                            He's awakened from torpor, literally! The process of getting tossed in time triggers an Acanthus awakening, and he dumps a bunch of dots into Time so he doesn't get ambushed again. Probably 5 dots, time stop being as powerful as it is. But not only that, his strange spiritual state leaves him open for a Geist to bond with his spirit, making him a Sin-Eater as well. Since 2e isn't out yet I don't know what powers he'd take, so we'll leave those off and just dump all the points into making his Geist really fast and strong.

                            Anyway, after he awakens he recruits bunch of supernaturals and moves to Egypt, but ends up getting offed by some punk high-school kid from Japan.


                            Last edited by PenDragon; 02-08-2019, 03:59 PM.


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                            Hacks and House Rules Hub Thread

                            CofD Hacks By Splat: Vampire | Werewolf | Mage | Mummy | Demon

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                              Okay, I've given this some thought and I think a pretty good character here.

                              I'd start with Vampire, probably Gangrel though maybe Deava. Start him off in the Victorian era, maybe as a poor punk who made his way into the wealthy aristocracy with wit and charm, give him a bunch of Vigor and maybe some Protean body horror devotions (because who doesn't love some body horror!). Anyway, he made a power grab, got carried away and a bunch of hunters took him out, nearly killed him.

                              Anyway, in the fight he and the hunters sink to the bottom of the ocean, where he's forced to rebuild his body, this gives him the Promethean template Probably a Frankenstein for the cool thematic synergy between vampire feeding and spare limbs, and give him some of the flux based body horror transmutations (after all, he basically gave up being human). Unfortunately the process of rebuilding is difficult and he's knocked into Torpor for like...I dunno, a hundred years.

                              He's awakened from torpor, literally! The process of getting tossed in time triggers an Acanthus awakening, and he dumps a bunch of dots into Time so he doesn't get ambushed again. Probably 5 dots, time stop being as powerful as it is. But not only that, his strange spiritual state leaves him open for a Geist to bond with his spirit, making him a Sin-Eater as well. Since 2e isn't out yet I don't know what powers he'd take, so we'll leave those off and just dump all the points into making his Geist really fast and strong.

                              Anyway, after he awakens he recruits bunch of supernaturals and moves to Egypt, but ends up getting offed by some punk high-school kid from Japan.

                              ...and yet. It makes so much sense. Best I had been able to do for Dio was, like, True Brujah from masquerade with a pallet swapped lure of flames.

                              Bravo, good sir.

                              EDIT: OK. Time to add some more to my stuff.

                              Giving it some thought, I think I'm going to go with the Beast/Mage/Vampire first, and focus on that one. May come back to another later, but focusing on one for now.

                              Options chosen were 1 and 2.
                              For Option 1, I'm going to go with this interpretation, just to set a rule: 25 Experiences per template (the minimum for an Elder), a base Power Stat of 5 in each template, and five total specialties (since Specialties get spent before Template). So that's 75 Experiences total in this example, plus Lair, Blood Potency, and Gnosis 5. On one hand this is ridiculous. On the other hand, I have characters approaching 75 Experiences in my LARP (though without the free power stat and only in Template), and I can say that it is ridiculous. But I think that's the intent. I'm also going to go with the idea that you aren't constantly on the run from everyone in your own splats, for one reason or another. Others may still want to experiment on you. Finally, I'm going to argue that you diverge at the step where you add a Template and stay diverged for Merits. Finishing touches brings you back together, though you still get Anchors as appropriate for separate templates. So that's 10 dots in each type for merits, plus 25 Experiences per.

                              I'm also going to make a small personal twist on this: the PC starts as a Wolfblood, with one Tell (two if they choose to spend three merit dots on the Merit), since none of the templates are themselves Werewolves. I'll set the tell(s) in the Merit section when I get there.

                              So. First off, stats. In this situation, the PC is based on me in real life. I'm going to make some small edits as I enter this world, but I do want the stats to reflect my base personality and capabilities. So Mentals Primary, Socials Secondary, and Physicals Tertiary. I'll go... Intelligence 4, Wits 2, Resolve 2, Presence 1, Manipulation 3, Composure 2, and we'll edit my Physicals to all be 2.

                              Skills follow the same priority assignment. For Mentals, I'll do Academics 4, Occult 3, and one dot each in Investigation, Politics, Science, and Computers. For the Physical skills, I'll put one each into Athletics, Firearms, Stealth, and Drive. And for Social... Expression 3, Subterfuge 2, Streetwise 1, and Persuasion 1.
                              For my five specialties I'll do these:
                              *Academics: Religion
                              *Investigation: Research
                              *Expression: Poetry, Acting
                              *Computers: Troubleshooting.

                              So that takes care of the basics. I'll do Aspirations out of order at the end. We'll move on to the Templates, starting with Mage.

                              As before, I'm going to go with Death and Forces as my two primary Arcana, and Life as my Inferior. The Artifact idea is cool, but a bit unreliable (I don't want to depend upon an item that can be stolen, personally, though that is just me). So going to want to use Death as a Life substitute for Body Control, and Forces to provide protection against the sunlight. Probably start Forces 3, Death 2, Fate 1. You start with one order dot for free as well - in my case I'll go Guardian of the Veil. I may do some work with other orders in the future and obtain some further Statuses, but Masque is too good to pass up so easily. So that's a free dot of Status (GoV) and High Speech. For my free trait, I'll drop a dot into Composure. That leaves me to pick up Rotes and Praxi; however, I'll save those till after I spend Experiences, to see where my Arcana may have ended up.

                              Next up will be the Vampire. Vampires don't get free status, which is a bummer. But I'll eventually take Ordo Dracul Status 1, and work up towards 4 at some point to pick up Twilight Judge. But I'll probably start Carthian, to get "Right of Return" as well. I'm also eyeing Chorister - of all the "soft membership" merits, that one is the only one that lets you take merits from the Covenant explicitly. For now, I'm going to assume that we can only pick the ten core disciplines, Praestantia, and the Covenant benefits - no 1E adaptations or unique 2E disciplines. That's fine... I can pick or develop those up later down the line since I know about them. My three In-Clan Disciplines will be Praestantia, Auspex, and Majesty, as I noted before. I'll put one dot in each for now. My free attribute dot will be.... We'll go Wits for his one.

                              For Beast, I get a bonus dot of Occult. For Family... I'll go Anakim, I think. Hunger of Secrets. My Atavisms will be Mimir's Wisdom and Eye of Heaven. For Nightmares, I'm going to say I have kinship with myself and take the Vampire "false family" Nightmare from Beast Player's Guide. I'll also take You Cannot Rest, as it's a bit of an issue I'm having right now and it seems like it may make an appropriate fear to become a Nightmare.

                              Alright... I'll leave this here for now. Merits next time, then XP.
                              Last edited by EndlessKng; 02-09-2019, 12:36 AM.

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