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Has there ever being a bad Cod book?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Korogra View Post

    Dogs of War was pretty forgettable, aside from Division Zero and the plot hooks thereof.

    War Against The Pure is amazing though, especially the Historical battles chapter
    I mean, I liked WAtP, but it seems like most people don't think of it too much.(Same with Sanctum and Sigil, or The Blood, or other such things)

    My point is that while there's not a lot that is nakedly terrible, there's a lot that's just kind of aight unless you really dig it.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
    Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

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    • #17
      Half-Damned kind of felt like the writers were writing for Masquerade (at worst) or 1E Requiem (at best).

      I'm not saying they didn't actually know they were writing 2E Requiem - that would be ludicrous - but that's how it felt. With the World of Darkness terminology leaking in before the errata (actual setting terminology, not just mechanical terms like in the Contagion draft), the reversion to framing the relationship with ghouls as excessively abusive and the like...it just didn't feel anything like 2E Req.

      All of that said...I still use material from the book somewhat frequently, so I wouldn't say it was a bad book.

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      • #18
        There are definitely books in the line that I feel could have been better developed, I don't think there are any (at least any of the ones I have read) completely devoid of usable material.

        Some of the ones I think could have been executed better:

        Changing Breeds: I will echo other criticisms. The book was thematically out of step with the NWOD was going for - I can only assume the writers went into the project with many Classic World of Darkness assumptions (including the mandatory throwing shade at the Uratha). Mechanically, there were some good ideas, but even if you don't believe true game balance is possible, one should at least give a nod in its direction. That being said, it offered some intriguing ideas (some where in my files I have a homebrew conversion for TMNT and Other Strangeness that uses Changing Breeds as a mechanical spring board).

        Beast: the Primordial: While probably the weakest of the core line books, I gained an appreciation for it after playing in a campaign for a few months. Thematic cohesion was the biggest issue for me - its like the book was torn between presenting Beasts as misunderstood outsiders, unrepentant monsters, or something else entirely. As a concept, I thinks Beasts has traction and can create a good play experience,but it definitely needs more focus.

        Thousand Years of Night: For the most part I like this book, but the omission of Werewolf and Mummy in the crossover section just drives me up the wall!



        Curios, Relics, and Tomes - A collection of Relics (Cursed and Otherwise)
        The Horror Lab - A collection of Beasts, Monsters and less definable things.
        Strange Places - A collection of Dark, Mysterious, and Wondrous Locations
        Twilight Menagerie - A collection of Ephemeral Entities

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        • #19
          Since I danced around it, Yes, Changing Breeds is the one definitively bad book. It's a mess, imbalanced, and...fairly immature, surprisingly.


          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
          Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

          Comment


          • #20
            Changing Breeds and Beast always stood out to me as far as that sort of thing goes.


            “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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            • #21
              I gotta say, while I'm not one to deny that Beast is messy, I'm...sort of amazed at how many people put it on the same level as Changing Breeds.


              Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
              Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Reighnhell View Post
                There are definitely books in the line that I feel could have been better developed, I don't think there are any (at least any of the ones I have read) completely devoid of usable material.

                Some of the ones I think could have been executed better:

                Changing Breeds: I will echo other criticisms. The book was thematically out of step with the NWOD was going for - I can only assume the writers went into the project with many Classic World of Darkness assumptions (including the mandatory throwing shade at the Uratha). Mechanically, there were some good ideas, but even if you don't believe true game balance is possible, one should at least give a nod in its direction. That being said, it offered some intriguing ideas (some where in my files I have a homebrew conversion for TMNT and Other Strangeness that uses Changing Breeds as a mechanical spring board).

                Beast: the Primordial: While probably the weakest of the core line books, I gained an appreciation for it after playing in a campaign for a few months. Thematic cohesion was the biggest issue for me - its like the book was torn between presenting Beasts as misunderstood outsiders, unrepentant monsters, or something else entirely. As a concept, I thinks Beasts has traction and can create a good play experience,but it definitely needs more focus.

                Thousand Years of Night: For the most part I like this book, but the omission of Werewolf and Mummy in the crossover section just drives me up the wall!
                the exclusion of Mummy will always confuse me. it would of had both complementing and contrasting themes to play on along with how similar yet different their experiences are
                Last edited by Primordial newcomer; 04-26-2019, 09:47 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                  Since I danced around it, Yes, Changing Breeds is the one definitively bad book. It's a mess, imbalanced, and...fairly immature, surprisingly.
                  Especially with the OP asking for games with a strongest consensus of being bad in the community, and not games that are divisive... singling out Beast as an example of a divisive book more than a bad book.

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                  • #24
                    I think Changing Breeds has had less impact, at least. It mostly comes up when players of oWoD want the Changing Breeds from there. Beast was a Kickstarter and series of threads on just about every RPG-oriented social media network there is.

                    Geist the Sin Eaters, first edition. Book was plagued by issues, to the point that they had to reissue a fixed edition of it, but from a content standpoint was a sort of chaotic lack of focus. I get what they were trying to do (and clearly others did too by the fanbase), and second edition improved it vastly all around, but the execution was flawed.

                    My personal letdown was Reliquary. I saw what they were going for, all the relics that pop up in assorted games, including Hunter's Aegis Kai Doru and Mummy. But it's like they went out of their way to make the actual items as boring as possible. I think one of the first sample items out the gate is a battery. Like, in case your characters work for the power company and are really interested in figuring out how this guy keeps his electricity bill so low, you can investigate and find that he has some several thousand year old batteries in his basement that produce power for him. It has good storytelling advice, I just think it was a big letdown for a book that's focused on supernatural artifacts.
                    Last edited by nofather; 04-26-2019, 10:17 PM.

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                    • #25
                      In defense of Reliquary, its probably in the top five CofD books in terms of usage for me (magical artifacts are one of my favorite tropes in fantasy/horror).

                      That being said,most of that usage is focused in the Relic creation section (and even that has been house ruled extensively). The sample artifacts are indeed somewhat unremarkable. I have always felt that this book came from a period in the publishing run where they played it safe (too safe) with powers and mechanics. Looking back, many of the relic abilities were over costed, over complicated, and under powered. Second Sight (another book that is among my favorites) also had similar issues with its supernatural merits.


                      Curios, Relics, and Tomes - A collection of Relics (Cursed and Otherwise)
                      The Horror Lab - A collection of Beasts, Monsters and less definable things.
                      Strange Places - A collection of Dark, Mysterious, and Wondrous Locations
                      Twilight Menagerie - A collection of Ephemeral Entities

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I can handle messy presentations so long as it has something that genuinely hooks me. Geist grabbed me as a necromantic balance between Werewolf and Changeling and I loved it despite it being messy. Same principle with Beast.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Half-Damned is like three books in its structure:
                          The first book is just bad, imo. I'm not hating on the idea of dhampir but both presentation and mechanics were messy to say the least.
                          The second book didn't grab my interest, aside from a reference to a lost Clan, i.e. something only tangentially related to revenants.
                          The third book was mixed; I don't think I would use any of it in a game as is, but I could mine it for inspiration.

                          I've seen Guide to the Night receive some flak, but I think that's mostly because it was hyped as the new Danse Macabre. It certainly didn't live up to that, but wasn't worse than any other VtR 2e supplement. Hell, I'm even positively surprised by the book since it breaks the trend of vampire supplements getting successively messier and more uninspired than the last.


                          Bloodline: The Stygians
                          Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                          Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                          • #28
                            changing breeds i feel. The book has some neat idea but flubbed hard on the execution. They appeared to have wanted to bring back the warriors of nature from werewolf the apocalypse back but failed to really make it decently intriguing. The individual subgroups that are there range from "Completely OP" to "Serviceable" and the fluff is all over the place. Also seems to be willing to go for more... innapporpiate humor, like making shitting on someones lawn a possible result of them giving you a a new watch.

                            Any gameline with rules for shitting should be seriously reevaluated.

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                            • #29

                              NWOD:
                              Changing Breeds, hands down the worse offender. Nothing comes close to this atrocity. If I had to choose the worst one overall, this would be it.
                              Mage the Awakening - Free Council, so BAD. My next candidate for worse overall.
                              Geist the Sin Eaters, could have been great, bad execution.
                              Mage the Awakening - Tome of the Watchtowers, on one hand I love pieces of it, on the other hand I want to burn the Thyrsus chapter (I am a hardcore Acanthus / Mastigos fan).
                              Mage the Awakening - Reign Of The Exarchs, A positive ending was one person losing their soul and no consequences (no negative effects of soul loss.. WTF?) Spells that can not be replicated because of "something, something, artefact. A lose-lose situation with Suthon Farms. It seems like the writer knew the rules of the corebook but did not understood the THEMES. 8/10 on creativity, 2/10 on application of rules.

                              CofD:
                              Beast: the Primordial Just messy.
                              Thousand Years of Night Horrible editing, inconsistencies abound,
                              Half-Damned Would have been awesome, but even the internal art is lacking. What happened here?


                              The rest of the books have their high and low points, some books were weak, not bad per se, just lacking fluff or crunch.
                              Last edited by lbeaumanior; 04-27-2019, 10:49 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                                Since I danced around it, Yes, Changing Breeds is the one definitively bad book. It's a mess, imbalanced, and...fairly immature, surprisingly.
                                That’s what happens when you have Phil “Satyrblade” behind the wheel at times.

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