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  • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
    Suppressible (-1 Magnitude): Choose a Controlled Scar as the secondary Scar, instead. Either the secondary Scar or at least one entangled Variation must be Overt. The Broken can temporarily suppress an entangled Variation by “activating” it, which requires a successful Scar Resistance roll and carries the consequences of the secondary Scar. Tribulation costs Willpower, for example, and Perilous Variation inflicts damage, but in doing so, they suppress the Variation for the duration of its normal activation (typically a scene).
    What happens if they take Suppressible but never intend to ever suppress it? Its basically an Overt Persistent Perpetual Variation with no Scar at that point.

    EDIT: Oh wait I misread. The problem is bigger since it can be the Scar that is Overt. So it can even effectively be a Subtle Persistent Perpetual Variation with no Scar.

    EDIT2: What if someone takes Electrokinesis, with Relentless + Suppressible with the Secondary Scar as Concentration.
    Last edited by Custos Tenebrarum; 10-18-2019, 07:07 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
      Suppressible (-1 Magnitude): Choose a Controlled Scar as the secondary Scar, instead.
      This has the same problem as the version in the previews copy: if you take Suppressible, and choose to never suppress the variation, you get the benefits of the variation without the drawbacks of a scar. Scrap the word “instead” (so that the Relentless Variation has two secondary scars, one that is in effect unless it's Suppressed and another that's used to Suppress it), and you're in better shape.


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      • Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
        This has the same problem as the version in the previews copy: if you take Suppressible, and choose to never suppress the variation, you get the benefits of the variation without the drawbacks of a scar. Scrap the word “instead” (so that the Relentless Variation has two secondary scars, one that is in effect unless it's Suppressed and another that's used to Suppress it), and you're in better shape.
        Oh that's great! I second that suggestion!

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        • First of all, as an academic, I love the University of Delaware setting.

          Second, looking at the list of possible Projects and the amount of Effort attached to each, I have questions. Namely, "create a new Node" is listed as a 10-Effort Project, but some of the lower-Effort projects seem like they should result in new Nodes. "Subvert operatives in a national organization" - how is that not represented as an Exploitative node? Or is it 7 Effort just to successfully establish a relationship, and more Effort is needed to truly make it a Node that the conspiracy can use? (And if so, is that another 10 Effort on top of the initial 7?) Same with "subsume a small organization into the Conspiracy" at 5 Effort. If this subsumed org doesn't constitute a Node, how do I represent its relationship to the rest of the conspiracy?

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          • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
            I'm making another go at Relentless Variation. Feedback appreciated. Thanks!

            Edit: Hold off on this, for now. I'm pretty sure I messed up some language ("higher of" and "lower of" are the same thing, right?), but I need to come back to this when I'm not simultaneously listening to Minecraft let's play videos and nursery rhymes.
            Can I at least say that I appreciate your willingness to run the changes by us again? Onyx Park has a great track record for transparency with its readership; but you're hitting a new level here.


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            • Originally posted by Mad_Maudlin View Post
              First of all, as an academic, I love the University of Delaware setting.

              Second, looking at the list of possible Projects and the amount of Effort attached to each, I have questions. Namely, "create a new Node" is listed as a 10-Effort Project, but some of the lower-Effort projects seem like they should result in new Nodes. "Subvert operatives in a national organization" - how is that not represented as an Exploitative node? Or is it 7 Effort just to successfully establish a relationship, and more Effort is needed to truly make it a Node that the conspiracy can use? (And if so, is that another 10 Effort on top of the initial 7?) Same with "subsume a small organization into the Conspiracy" at 5 Effort. If this subsumed org doesn't constitute a Node, how do I represent its relationship to the rest of the conspiracy?
              I think, given the placement of those examples in their lists relative to earlier tasks, the point is that those gains are temporary. The conspiracy has access to those groups within the narrative, but they're not presently integrated into the conspiracy well enough to represent a Node that needs to be destroyed to deprive them of their assets.


              Resident Lore-Hound
              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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              • Originally posted by Mad_Maudlin View Post
                First of all, as an academic, I love the University of Delaware setting.

                Second, looking at the list of possible Projects and the amount of Effort attached to each, I have questions. Namely, "create a new Node" is listed as a 10-Effort Project, but some of the lower-Effort projects seem like they should result in new Nodes. "Subvert operatives in a national organization" - how is that not represented as an Exploitative node? Or is it 7 Effort just to successfully establish a relationship, and more Effort is needed to truly make it a Node that the conspiracy can use? (And if so, is that another 10 Effort on top of the initial 7?) Same with "subsume a small organization into the Conspiracy" at 5 Effort. If this subsumed org doesn't constitute a Node, how do I represent its relationship to the rest of the conspiracy?
                Good point. I think the writer was coding "create a new Node" in a narrative way that I overlooked, since I tend to like more mechanical/game language in examples like this. I've made a note to myself to review this one.

                Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                I think, given the placement of those examples in their lists relative to earlier tasks, the point is that those gains are temporary. The conspiracy has access to those groups within the narrative, but they're not presently integrated into the conspiracy well enough to represent a Node that needs to be destroyed to deprive them of their assets.
                That's certainly another possibility, although I'd like to make it a bit more clear. I'm really glad Devoted Companion is happening, so I'll get to do more with conspiracy actions and Projects in it.

                Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post

                Can I at least say that I appreciate your willingness to run the changes by us again? Onyx Park has a great track record for transparency with its readership; but you're hitting a new level here.
                I won't do this with every change or edit I make, but Relentless Variation is definitely the obvious Scar concept that is the most difficult to convey mechanically without breaking it in completely awful ways, so to be perfectly honest, I appreciate having a bunch of extra sets of eyes on it as I continue to polish it. An innocuous question like "how does Relentless (Suppressible) work with Concentration?" forces me to notice issues that hadn't occurred to me previously, which allows me to answer that question (or prevent its needing to be asked) in the text.

                I'm not sure what happened this afternoon. I somehow completely failed to address the exact problem you and others pointed out that was the reason I'm fixing this Scar in the first place! I think I need to get to bed early tonight or sleep in tomorrow or something. I'm probably still pretty sleep-deprived from the Kickstarter.
                Last edited by Eric Zawadzki; 10-18-2019, 11:15 PM.


                Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                • I have a small question about Integrate Technology 2 and up. For something like an integrated cellphone or a laptop (something advanced that has internal data, inputs and an interface), would the Deviant have to "manifest" it to interact with it or can they access it entirely internally? For example, does an Invasive Renegade on a bus who wants to check Facebook sprout a touchscreen from their arm or can they just stare off into the middle distance and start scrolling in their mind's eye?
                  Last edited by Intrepid Vector; 10-19-2019, 02:46 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by Intrepid Vector View Post
                    I have a small question about Integrate Technology 2 and up. For something like an integrated cellphone or a laptop (something advanced that has internal data, inputs and an interface), would the Deviant have to "manifest" it to interact with it or can they access it entirely internally? For example, does an Invasive Renegade on a bus who wants to check Facebook sprout a touchscreen from their arm or can they just stare off into the middle distance and start scrolling in their mind's eye?
                    Either option works, as it's largely flavor. A screen on your arm lets you show it to someone else, while one on the inside of your eye is less likely to be noticed, and having the option for both probably isn't worth making it a Deviation. Just establish how it works for your character, for the sake of consistency.


                    Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                    • Thanks! I wasn't sure. It really is neat how much of the flavor is up to the player.

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                      • Relentless Variation is quickly becoming the Lash of Scars, both in terms of word count and customizability (this thing is basically a Controlled, Involuntary, and Persistent Scar all rolled up into one). Remembered to fix the thing I was supposed to fix the first time, as well as removing some Controlled Scar effects that really didn't make sense in the context of suppression. Feedback appreciated.

                        Relentless Variation (• to •••••)
                        Keywords: Secondary; Subtle; Repeatable; Toggled-Only
                        The Variation entangled with the Scar is always active, and the Remade can’t toggle it off. At best, she must take measures to bring it under control. At worst, she can’t.

                        Choose another Persistent Scar (the secondary Scar). All Variations combined with this Scar also suffer the secondary Scar. The entangled Variations behave as though they and the Scar are both Persistent and Perpetual (granting a +5 bonus to Clash of Wills rolls involving them). Calculate the Magnitude of Relentless Variation as follows:

                        • If the secondary Scar and all entangled Variations are Subtle, the Magnitude of Relentless Variation is one less than that of the secondary Scar.
                        • If the secondary Scar is Subtle but at least one of the entangled Variations is Overt, the Magnitude of Relentless Variation is the higher of (secondary Scar Magnitude - 1) or the Magnitude of the highest-Magnitude Overt Variation.
                        • If the secondary Scar is Overt, the Magnitude of Relentless Variation is equal to that of the secondary Scar.
                        • The Magnitude of this Scar is one higher if one or more entangled Variations are likely to create story complications by being “always-on,” such as Camouflage 3+, Gigantic, Miniaturization, or Out of Phase (Body) 3.

                        If an entangled Tiered Variation has a constant effect (such as Bioluminescence with the Aura Deviation, or Gigantic), the Deviant’s player determines the default Magnitude of each Tiered Variation entangled with Relentless Variation at the time she develops this Scar. She may change the current Magnitude (as well as any applicable Deviations) of a Variation as an action, such as to dim or brighten the light her Bioluminescence (p. XX) ordinarily produces, for example, as long as she is normally able to do so.

                        Directed Variations (or Directed effects of non-Directed Variations) entangled with this Scar still require an action to target. Effects limited to use once per scene/chapter/story still carry these restrictions, and those with explicit durations are still limited to them (Omnicompetence 2 doesn’t grant the option to have a dot in all Skills, constantly, for example). This Scar can entangle Reflexive Variations and those with a “menu” of capabilities that can’t reasonably remain “always on” (such as Electrokinesis), but it has little-to-no effect on them without Deviations.

                        Deviations
                        Suppressible (-1 Magnitude): The Broken can suppress an entangled Variation until the end of the scene by one of the following means, chosen at the time the Deviant develops this Scar:

                        Concentration: Suppressing an entangled Variation (or preventing it from reasserting itself, once suppressed) follows the same rules as activating one entangled with the Concentration 3 Controlled Scar (p. XX).

                        Depletion: The Broken can only suppress an entangled Variation for a number of minutes (turns, in action scenes) equal to Scar Resistance and may only do so once per scene, although Adaptations can overcome this.

                        Deterioration: Suppressing an entangled Variation follows the same rules as activating one entangled with the Deterioration (Lingering) 3 Controlled Scar (p. XX).

                        Perilous: The Broken suffers a point of lethal damage when suppressing an entangled Variation.

                        Power Failure: Suppressing an entangled Variation follows similar rules as activating one entangled with the Power Failure Scar (p. XX). See the sidebar for details

                        Preparation: Suppressing an entangled Variation follows the same rules as activating one entangled with the Preparation (Elaborate) 3 Controlled Scar (p. XX).

                        Tribulation: The Deviant must spend a point of Willpower to suppress an entangled Variation.

                        Unstable: The Remade suffers a minor Instability each time he suppresses an entangled Variation.

                        Unruly (+1 Magnitude): At least one of the entangled Variations must be Directed. Once per chapter, as long as the Variation is active (not neutralized by Suppressible, the Untamed Adaptation, or the Mimicry Variation, for example), the Storyteller may direct an entangled Variation for a single turn during which the Deviant did not do so, either choosing its target or selecting one at random. The Broken’s player may resist this effect with a Scar Resistance roll. If this roll succeeds, the Storyteller may make another direction attempt in a later scene but may not attempt to direct this Variation again during the current scene. Each consecutive successful roll to resist Storyteller direction imposes a -1 penalty on future rolls to resist this effect.
                        Rebellious (+2 Magnitude): As Unruly and exclusive with it, but if the Storyteller successfully directs an entangled Variation, he may continue directing it on subsequent turns until the end of the scene or until the Deviant’s player makes a successful Scar Resistance roll to regain control. Each consecutive failed Scar Resistance roll to regain control grants a +1 penalty on later rolls to wrest back control.

                        Relentless Variation and Power Failure

                        When using the Suppressible Deviation, Power Failure is a special case, reflecting as it does some countermeasure or suppression device the Broken uses to tamp down her unruly Variations — such as a special article of clothing, continual exposure to a radio signal, or regular injections of a stabilizing serum. While this is their main purpose within the story, an enemy could deploy them to disable the transformed’s Variations, or the Deviant might find herself in an environment where the countermeasures are in place and she can’t remove them in order to use her Variations. Thus, the Power Failure option for Relentless Variation is a double-edged sword.
                        For that reason, the countermeasure can be as easy to bring into play (or as rare and difficult to apply) as the player wishes. The player similarly decides the following at the time he purchases this Scar:
                        Off: Does application of the countermeasure neutralize the Variation immediately, or does it take time to do so? If gradual, does the Variation lose Magnitude every interval of time (measured in turns in action scenes, minutes in other scenes), or does it switch off on a delay?
                        On: Does removal of the countermeasure cause the Variation to manifest at full strength immediately, or does it take time to do so? If gradual, does the Variation gain Magnitude every interval of time (turns in action scenes, minutes in other scenes), or does it switch on after the delay?
                        Minimum: Once the countermeasure is removed, can it be reapplied right away, or is it impossible to do so for a period of time (measured in turns in action scenes, minutes in other scenes) or until the end of the scene?
                        Last edited by Eric Zawadzki; 10-19-2019, 10:36 AM. Reason: Clarification to Concentration effect


                        Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                        • Hm. If you Suppress all the entangled Variations, does that also temporarily alleviate the Secondary Scar? Or am I missing something about why that would be a bad idea?

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                          • Originally posted by Intrepid Vector View Post
                            Hm. If you Suppress all the entangled Variations, does that also temporarily alleviate the Secondary Scar? Or am I missing something about why that would be a bad idea?
                            That would be how Mimicry works and is not my intention here. However, I believe there is some language elsewhere that would contradict my intent, so I'll locate and clarify it.


                            Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                            • Ahh, I temporarily forgot about Mimicry. That's what I was missing.

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                              • Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
                                Relentless Variation (• to •••••)
                                I really like this version! there's no real issue i can see, though personally i would
                                1. add a specific note for what if the Magnitude of the Secondary Scar is set below 1 (personally i would say that it counts as a Subtle Secondary in that case)
                                2. clarify what you mean in in the second case (Subtle Scar, Overt Variation). My understanding is you wanted to be (Secondary Scar Magnitude - 1), same as the full Subtle Version, in the case of Secondary Scar Magnitude being more than Overt Variation Magnitude, and straight Secondary Scar Magnitude, same as as the full Overt Version, in the case of the Overt Variation Magnitude being more than or equal to the Secondary Scar Magnitude, but this isn't obvious by the way it is written.

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