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  • Second Chances
    started a topic Deviant Kickstarter

    Deviant Kickstarter

    The Kickstarter is live and already approaching 20% funded!

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...me/description

  • Mad_Maudlin
    replied
    Thanks for the clarification, everyone!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    That's what I get for deleting "except for those supposed to protect against other powers" just because I couldn't think of any in the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
    Tell that to Fate's Agent.
    Or, most prosaically, Immunity 3 and Superhuman Stamina/Resolve 3+, whose whole deal is being Perpetual Variations that prompt a Clash of Wills with entire categories of other powers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric Zawadzki
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    Not that Perpetual Variations tend to enter CoWs in the first place.
    Tell that to Fate's Agent. But yeah, the local sorcerer probably won't bother trying to dispel/suppress your Carapace or Anomalous Biology, so it doesn't exactly come up constantly, but I'd say it's more common than other splats getting the duration bonus (mages being a common exception).

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    Perpetual Variations do get a +5 bonus to CoW rolls, but equivalent powers for all other splats gain a +4 bonus so I wouldn't highlight those. Not that Perpetual Variations tend to enter CoWs in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • FallenEco
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post

    Three. Used to be four but one player got too busy for the game.
    Okay, that is impressive

    Leave a comment:


  • Eric Zawadzki
    replied
    Clash of Wills is Variation Magnitude + Acclimation (so a range of 1-10 in most cases), with a +5 bonus if the Variation is Perpetual. (see p. 94 & 110-112)

    Supernatural Tolerance is Acclimation + highest Variation Magnitude (also a range of 1-10). (see p. 94)

    Perpetual Variations aside, other splats will eventually outshine them at CoW, but their dice pools at character creation aren't usually that much different than those of other splats - 1-7 for Deviants vs. 2-6 for, say, a mage.

    They often have quite high Supernatural Tolerance at the start compared to other splats - 1-7 for Remade vs. 1-3 for the others (for the most part).

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
    How many Gnosis/Blood Potency/Primal Urge 10 PCs show up at your table?
    Three. Used to be four but one player got too busy for the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave Brookshaw
    replied
    Deviants being relatively bad at Clash of Wills rolls *except* for always-on powers is entirely intentional, and was even part of the initial pitch to White Wolf.

    Leave a comment:


  • FallenEco
    replied
    So to recap Supernatural Tolerence is 1-10 (Acclimation + highest Magnitude),but Potency is just Acclimation?
    That works.
    How many Gnosis/Blood Potency/Primal Urge 10 PCs show up at your table? Cover 10 Unchained at least have all their rules in print and don't need to spend most of their time in the Hisil.

    Iirc, Deviant is supposed to be lower power level than most of the other gamelines (explicitly called out as bigger than Hunter though)

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mad_Maudlin View Post
    I just realized something about how Supernatural Tolerance works for Deviants:

    Page 94: ST is calculated at Acclimation + highest-Magnitude Variation. Even though Acclimation goes from 0-5, this combination gives Deviants the usual 1-10 range of ST, since they're always going to have at least one one-dot Variation..

    Page 111: For a Clash of Wills, Deviants use Acclimation + the Magnitude of the Variation in question. Every other splat uses ST + rating of the power(/activation trait/Ability/idk just make stuff up if it's Beast).

    So when any other roll adds Supernatural Tolerance, Deviants are operating on a 1-10 scale, but specifically for Clash of Wills, they're operating on a 0-5 scale? Am I reading this correctly?
    Note that Clash of Wills dice pools uses Supernatural Potency plus a relevant trait (at least if we consider what's written in Changeling). Unfortunately Deviant doesn't even mention Supernatural Potency so it's probably intended to be the same as Supernatural Tolerance as in most games (only game where it isn't is Demon, and that's only according to a side bar in Changeling), but if you'd like you could consider Acclimation alone to be their Supernatural Potency, in which case Deviant follows the general rule.
    Besides, Clash of Wills have always been "unfairly" distributed for the different splats. For those who use Supernatural Potency plus a supernatural trait (Discipline/Arcanum/Renown etc) they gain a variable dice pool that goes from 2 to 15. For those who use Supernatural Potency plus an Attribute because their powers aren't dot rated, gets to use a dice pool that goes from 2 to 20. Deviants are just extra unfairly treated (just like they tend to be in-setting) since their dice pool goes from 1 to 10.
    Small side note: Perpetual Variations gain a +5 duration bonus to CoW rolls. This is in fact one higher than the +4 that all other splats gain from using powers with a duration of a year or higher. But a difference of one is far from enough to balance it out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mad_Maudlin
    replied
    I just realized something about how Supernatural Tolerance works for Deviants:

    Page 94: ST is calculated at Acclimation + highest-Magnitude Variation. Even though Acclimation goes from 0-5, this combination gives Deviants the usual 1-10 range of ST, since they're always going to have at least one one-dot Variation..

    Page 111: For a Clash of Wills, Deviants use Acclimation + the Magnitude of the Variation in question. Every other splat uses ST + rating of the power(/activation trait/Ability/idk just make stuff up if it's Beast).

    So when any other roll adds Supernatural Tolerance, Deviants are operating on a 1-10 scale, but specifically for Clash of Wills, they're operating on a 0-5 scale? Am I reading this correctly?

    Leave a comment:


  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    It is far too easy to set up Scars that are drawbacks in name only. Especially Relentless Variation and Involuntary Stimulus can be cheesed to be basically meaningless. The former on Monstrous Transformation (aka Hybrid Form) and Conspicuous Appearance means you're getting the drawbacks of looking like a monster while using a Variation that makes you look like a monster, and the latter can way too easily be set to trigger in situations where you want it to be triggered. Consider putting a Lash on Involuntary Stimulus where the stimulus is fear, and suddenly the Scar works in your favour because it reflexively activates your Lash for you whenever you enter combat.
    Both examples are not entirely without drawbacks, but they're by far much less potent than intended. When designing a Deviant it's really up to you how punishing you want the Scars to be. Five dot Scars are absolutely devastating, to the point where I can't see why anyone would want take some of them, but you could just as easily use Standard Deviations to bring it down to two lenient Scars at two and three dots for your massive five dot Variation.
    Hell, there's even a side bar in the Scars section (or used to, in the KS manuscript) that basically says "yeah, you can totally make broken combinations but please don't".
    Just wondering since you set that example. Would it be balanced to give Conspicuous appearance to Hybrid form, but with the caveat the form is either Persistent OR last to the next scene (but without the benefits. Think shutting down slowly)

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post
    Hell, there's even a side bar in the Scars section (or used to, in the KS manuscript) that basically says "yeah, you can totally make broken combinations but please don't".
    It's still there. Page 173.

    Originally posted by Sidebar: Choosing Scars
    Like Variations, Scars are highly flexible and modular, allowing for a massive array of combinations and character concepts. Certain combinations of Variations, Scars, and Deviations might render the Scars’ intended drawbacks ineffective or make the game less fun for other players — the book can’t take every possible permutation into account. In cases like this, always err on the side of staying true to the spirit and themes of the game, and choose another combination or bend the rules as-written to make the pairing viable as a fun and dramatic Scar that complicates the Deviant’s life and, at higher Magnitudes, can be deadly or otherwise ruinous. The Storyteller is the final arbiter of these decisions and may disallow disruptive or nonsensical combinations of Variations, Scars, and Deviations where needed.

    Leave a comment:

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