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  • #31
    Is it just me, or is the term “checks” something that generally isn’t in CofD? Because I am seeing a lot of “checks” in reference to die rolls in the Seven Wonders entry, and it feels really... kind of off-putting. That said, I need to be up for work in around four-five hours, so haven’t gone too closely to it.

    That said, I am a little disconcerted by the new kiths in the chapter. Antiquarian’s Blessing is good, but the Trickery is weird because it requires a number of successes to get an answer that the ST gives a number of successes for, and since it appears to be a single roll to get it it feels like a bit of a shot in the dark for something you can only do once a session. If it were an extended roll that worked once a session, that I would be happy with.

    Chimera’s nice to see again with a bit more fleshing out from Trial By Hearts, though I do note the Trickery now requires each of the Changeling’s Goblin Contracts to get a turn not giving Debt when used before you can use the Trickery on them again, and that you choose which at the beginning of the story. Suffice to say, that’s a bit of a long time to cycle through. Most of my Chronicles Of Darkness games haven’t even seen the end of a single Story, much less lasted multiple.

    Dryad’s cool in both its Blessing and Trickery, no ifs ands or buts.

    Muse is... weird for its Blessing. Rather than a die pool getting an exceptional success on 3 successes on a particular circumstance, we have it affecting Mantle or Court Goodwill as if it were one dot higher higher once a session. It’s the Trickery that instead grants the “3 successes for an exceptional success” aspect, and it’s being granted on another instead, which is interesting but overall a weird departure from the formula set by the core Changeling book. Plus it uses “check” for dice roll and doesn’t give a set die pool which, again, is a departure.

    Nymph’s Blessing’s nice and consistent, but its Trickery weirds me out because it’s just a straight up buff to swimming without any costs or dice rolls to activate, which is weird because by and large the only abilities that did that were ones that benefited others.

    I need sleep, given how many times I’ve said “weird” in this post. Let it be said I’m not lambasting this entry nor am I saying it’s bad. It’s clear that someone was inspired when writing these entries out and I like the ideas presented. I’m just not used to the conventions of the Kiths being bucked like this so soon into the game’s lifespan. Then again, I’m a stickler for familiarity.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
      Is it just me, or is the term “checks” something that generally isn’t in CofD? Because I am seeing a lot of “checks” in reference to die rolls in the Seven Wonders entry, and it feels really... kind of off-putting. That said, I need to be up for work in around four-five hours, so haven’t gone too closely to it.

      That said, I am a little disconcerted by the new kiths in the chapter. Antiquarian’s Blessing is good, but the Trickery is weird because it requires a number of successes to get an answer that the ST gives a number of successes for, and since it appears to be a single roll to get it it feels like a bit of a shot in the dark for something you can only do once a session. If it were an extended roll that worked once a session, that I would be happy with.

      Chimera’s nice to see again with a bit more fleshing out from Trial By Hearts, though I do note the Trickery now requires each of the Changeling’s Goblin Contracts to get a turn not giving Debt when used before you can use the Trickery on them again, and that you choose which at the beginning of the story. Suffice to say, that’s a bit of a long time to cycle through. Most of my Chronicles Of Darkness games haven’t even seen the end of a single Story, much less lasted multiple.

      Dryad’s cool in both its Blessing and Trickery, no ifs ands or buts.

      Muse is... weird for its Blessing. Rather than a die pool getting an exceptional success on 3 successes on a particular circumstance, we have it affecting Mantle or Court Goodwill as if it were one dot higher higher once a session. It’s the Trickery that instead grants the “3 successes for an exceptional success” aspect, and it’s being granted on another instead, which is interesting but overall a weird departure from the formula set by the core Changeling book. Plus it uses “check” for dice roll and doesn’t give a set die pool which, again, is a departure.

      Nymph’s Blessing’s nice and consistent, but its Trickery weirds me out because it’s just a straight up buff to swimming without any costs or dice rolls to activate, which is weird because by and large the only abilities that did that were ones that benefited others.

      I need sleep, given how many times I’ve said “weird” in this post. Let it be said I’m not lambasting this entry nor am I saying it’s bad. It’s clear that someone was inspired when writing these entries out and I like the ideas presented. I’m just not used to the conventions of the Kiths being bucked like this so soon into the game’s lifespan. Then again, I’m a stickler for familiarity.
      The nymph's trickery as you call it is balanced out by being nearly useless when on dry land which most of the time in a game, so it doesn't need a cost to use. Seriously it's awesomeness in water is balanced out ny the fact that play is mostly on land I believe, where at best it gets a neat party trick of turning it's legs into a tail and back. So it balanced.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
        Is it just me, or is the term “checks” something that generally isn’t in CofD? Because I am seeing a lot of “checks” in reference to die rolls in the Seven Wonders entry, and it feels really... kind of off-putting.
        It's not just you. CofD doesn't use checks - the word comes up exactly zero times in the core where dice mechanics are concerned.

        Originally posted by Taidragon View Post
        it requires a number of successes to get an answer that the ST gives a number of successes for, and since it appears to be a single roll
        We saw this sort of thing quite a bit in the Contagion Chronicle drafts, and a fair bit in other product previews.

        Simple, uncontested rolls require a single success in this system.
        This is not World of Darkness.
        If your mechanic requires more than a single success, consider if you can accomplish your goal through dice penalties instead.


        I feel like this needs to be enshrined and bolded in the writer's guides at this point. Yes, there are (vanishingly few) exceptions, but we shouldn't be seeing them with the frequency we have in recent product previews.

        Thankfully, these instances have all been in preview products, not final ones, and the team has been very responsive to feedback.
        Last edited by lnodiv; 01-18-2020, 12:45 PM.

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        • #34
          As we are at mechanical problems - in 1001 Nightmares, i.e. Golden Age of Islam era - we have:

          'The mosque suppresses supernatural influence on the mind, including the Dominate Discipline and Begotten
          Nightmares (prompting a Clash of Wills),'


          And number of dices in Clash of Wills is not pointed here. What it is?


          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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          • #35
            So uh, dumb question I'm sure but, for those of us who missed the KS, is there a way to buy the advance PDF now?


            My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

              The nymph's trickery as you call it is balanced out by being nearly useless when on dry land which most of the time in a game, so it doesn't need a cost to use. Seriously it's awesomeness in water is balanced out ny the fact that play is mostly on land I believe, where at best it gets a neat party trick of turning it's legs into a tail and back. So it balanced.
              The problem wasn't balance, it was how it isn't following the other Kith Trickeries by doing something far closer to 1e than 2e.

              Trickery: Each kith harnesses a unique power in pursuit of its members’ task. Using this power requires conscious effort. Most commonly, this is represented by spending one Glamour point and making an Attribute + Skill roll: A Helldiver can become immate- rial after spending a Glamour and rolling Dexterity + Occult. Exceptions to this ex- ist depending on the kith’s function.
              That is from the Kith creation rules, and while it does say "most commonly" none others have effects that just work like this one.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Kvark View Post
                So uh, dumb question I'm sure but, for those of us who missed the KS, is there a way to buy the advance PDF now?
                Go to the KS page, and use the link to get to Backerkit. You can preorder it there.


                Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Book of Lasting Death, DtR The Clades Companion, Pirates of Pugmire, They Came From Beyond the Grave!, TC Aeon: Mission Statements, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
                Masculine pronouns preferred.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post

                  Go to the KS page, and use the link to get to Backerkit. You can preorder it there.
                  The PDF preorder, yeah? Sorry for the many questions, I've not participated in a Kickstarter in many years.


                  My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kvark View Post

                    The PDF preorder, yeah? Sorry for the many questions, I've not participated in a Kickstarter in many years.
                    I believe so. When I used Backerkit to pick up Scion, PDFs and hardcopies were ordered as separate items. Nothing says DE2 has to be the same, but I suspect it will work the same way.


                    Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn, Contagion RMCs; Scion - Mysteries of the World, Wild Hunt

                    CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (WIP) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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                    • #40
                      I must say that I was a bit surprised to see the Council of Bones getting mentioned in 1001 Nightmares. I mean, I was sure that they were a relatively young conspiracy, especially as their name is pretty simple compared to the other 3rd Tier groups. Now I wonder how old the Council actually is...


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                      "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                        I'm fairly certain the actual Cult of the Phoenix hasn't emerged in Hunger in the Black Lands. Perhaps a progentior to them, but it's weird to read about the Ascending Ones prior to being the Ascending Ones.

                        Minor gripe, but it did trip me.
                        well, the name Ascending Ones is indeed out of place, but as far as I can tell from Witch Finders, I think that the Cult of the Phoenix existed long before Hunger in the Black Land. Nitocris is dated to the 6th Dynasty, which puts them between 2345 and 2181 BC. So yeah, the name Ascending Ones is out of place (or, more exactly, out of era), but the Cult should have existed during that time.


                        My Homebrew Signature

                        "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

                        I now blog in here

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                          well, the name Ascending Ones is indeed out of place, but as far as I can tell from Witch Finders, I think that the Cult of the Phoenix existed long before Hunger in the Black Land. Nitocris is dated to the 6th Dynasty, which puts them between 2345 and 2181 BC. So yeah, the name Ascending Ones is out of place (or, more exactly, out of era), but the Cult should have existed during that time.
                          Right, I should have made that clearer-I was referring directly to the Cult of the Phoenix being the Ascending Ones prior to the fall of the Cult of Set.

                          In relation to that, it's neat to see mehket as a common word for the blood drinking undead before what is one of the more commonly accepted points of origin for the Mehket proper.


                          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
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                          Feminine pronouns, please.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

                            The problem wasn't balance, it was how it isn't following the other Kith Trickeries by doing something far closer to 1e than 2e.



                            That is from the Kith creation rules, and while it does say "most commonly" none others have effects that just work like this one.
                            There are functional reasons for it and it's not over powered.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

                              There are functional reasons for it and it's not over powered.
                              And again, you're willfully ignoring what I am talking about. This is about consistency, not being overpowered. In Changeling everything has a price, be it glamour, willpower, effort in the effect of a roll or some environmental condition that has to be met. However, the Kith specifies that "magic" keeps the Changeling able to see and breath underwater but no condition where this magic won't work, just an obvious reasoning why it shouldn't be used on land. That's not consistent at all with the other powers and aspects of Changeling - that's something out of Beast: The Primordial (almost literally). I am not saying it should be removed or even changed much if it all, just that it feels weird to have it in this state. You are the only one citing it being overpowered (even if in saying it isn't).

                              Incidentally, your reason for it not being overpowered doesn't hold water. All kiths have their niche where are their Trickeries are useful, but they still have costs and conditions to use them. Just being useful underwater doesn't exempt Nymphs from this nor the possibility of being overpowered.
                              Last edited by Taidragon; 01-19-2020, 12:58 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Taidragon View Post

                                And again, you're willfully ignoring what I am talking about. This is about consistency, not being overpowered. In Changeling everything has a price, be it glamour, willpower, effort in the effect of a roll or some environmental condition that has to be met. However, the Kith specifies that "magic" keeps the Changeling able to see and breath underwater but no condition where this magic won't work, just an obvious reasoning why it shouldn't be used on land. That's not consistent at all with the other powers and aspects of Changeling - that's something out of Beast: The Primordial (almost literally). I am not saying it should be removed or even changed much if it all, just that it feels weird to have it in this state. You are the only one citing it being overpowered (even if in saying it isn't).

                                Incidentally, your reason for it not being overpowered doesn't hold water. All kiths have their niche where are their Trickeries are useful, but they still have costs and conditions to use them. Just being useful underwater doesn't exempt Nymphs from this nor the possibility of being overpowered.
                                This has a price and the price is it's useless on land, it's a trade off on utility instead of resources. If it was spend glamour to use these abilities it would be awful, this keeps it balance. They made it clear their would be exceptions for just this sort of circumstance. I see it less as inconsistance, and more using the loophole that was intended for just this sort of circumstance.

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