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  • DtR 2E City

    So with all this time, I'm populating LA with monsters. So this thread is about Deviants. Do deviants even form a society? Or are they too few in a city so large to get anything done? And what about the conspiracies? Can several fit in a city without being subsumed by others? I'm going to re read the deviant manuscript again to get a feel for it, but I think that this community can make it easier to figure it all out.



  • #2
    I am too drunk to contribute to this argument coherently but I am just enough in my mind to ask "how fucking dare you."

    Like, I had WHOLE POINTS TO MAKE based on you NOT doing this.

    That ASIDE.

    the....

    Not sub-y splat , nor Z-splat, the (fucking) intermediary reality of Deviants is that most are in direct interest of local/regional conspiracies, and spiral outward from there.

    Deviants form subordinate groups based on the communal interests of the Conspiratorial Organizations they deal with, which is an admixture of the common-enough reconciliations with the Conspiracies and their actions AND the appropriate counter-responses of said Renegades, which is both communal enough that it's always personal to the Renegades and impersonal enough that it could embody the actions of larger arguments.

    On record, the problem of this is not so much as it's a broad issue so much as it's now an argument that needs to be argued on three fronts.

    As Renegade goes-well, a lot of that is similar thought just dis-similar enough to other problems, but the exact point is that Dealing with a Conspiracy in any given city is largely dependent on how the Conspiracy deals with a) the Renegades in specific, b) the conspiracy deals with itself in specific, and c) how the conspiracy deals with other conspiracies in specific context to both itself, monsters, and others in the context of all of the above.

    Which is JUST FUCKING COMPLICATED ENOUGH to make a question about B in application to protagonists, which is very frustrating.

    Anyways, dealing your questions in order:

    Do Deviants form a Society? Sure, look at Demons dealing with the same shit on a higher scale.

    Are they too few to get anything done? Depends on the setting-sometimes , the Renegades are in power, enough to fuck any and everyone in order. Other times? luck if they can say they're midly addicted to cigarettes the same way.

    Several can fit into a city in the same ways multiple covenants can exist in the same space. The question is how much any of them can fucking deal with each other based on their beliefs and tolerances.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 06-23-2020, 03:06 PM.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
    Feminine pronouns, please.

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    • #3
      Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I specifically asked you to keep this confined into one single thread.


      Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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      • #4
        You told me to take it to general, so I did.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
          I am too drunk to contribute to this argument coherently but I am just enough in my mind to ask "how fucking dare you."

          Like, I had WHOLE POINTS TO MAKE based on you NOT doing this.

          That ASIDE.

          the....

          Not sub-y splat , nor Z-splat, the (fucking) intermediary reality of Deviants is that most are in direct interest of local/regional conspiracies, and spiral outward from there.

          Deviants form subordinate groups based on the communal interests of the Renegade groups to the Conspiratorial Organizations they deal with, which is an admixture of the common-enough reconciliations with the Conspiracies and their actions AND the appropriate counter-responses of said Renegades, which is both communal enough that it's always personal to the Renegades and impersonal enough that it could embody the actions of larger arguments.

          On record, the problem of this is not so much as it's a broad issue so much as it's now an argument that needs to be argued on three fronts.

          As Renegade goes-well, a lot of that is similar thought just dis-similar enough to other problems, but the exact point is that Dealing with a Conspiracy in any given city is largely dependent on how the Conspiracy deals with a) the Renegades in specific, b) the conspiracy deals with itself in specific, and c) how the conspiracy deals with other conspiracies in specific context to both itself, monsters, and others in the context of all of the above.

          Which is JUST FUCKING COMPLICATED ENOUGH to make a question about B in application to protagonists, which is very frustrating.

          Anyways, dealing your questions in order:

          Do Deviants form a Society? Sure, look at Demons dealing with the same shit on a higher scale.

          Are they too few to get anything done? Depends on the setting-sometimes , the Renegades are in power, enough to fuck any and everyone in order. Other times? luck if they can say they're midly addicted to cigarettes the same way.

          Several can fit into a city in the same ways multiple covenants can exist in the same space. The question is how much any of them can fucking deal with each other based on their beliefs and tolerances.
          Where? You didn't reply to any of these threads. At least not on this account. Maybe one of your alt accounts?
          Details would be helpful.
          And now that you've broken it down into these three, maybe helping to answer them.

          Do demons form societies? I'm unable to get details on that question, and my own reading suggest agendas, but they're not really societies. And while they have similar issues, they cannot deal with them the same way in the slightest. Demons have covers, reality breaking powers, and the angels hunting them have their own covers so it becomes a giant cold war espionage thing. But this topic isn't about demons beyond the fact that they also exist in the city. Tell me about Deviants.
          Again, you can say that about any setting, but its not helpful. You could have 100 prometheans in a city, using their powers to create a safe zone for them, but thats unrealistic, since that's basically the planet's population. So realistically, what are deviant numbers in a city?
          Multiple covenants exist in the same city because they are linked together through the overarching vampire society. Deviant conspiracies are not. Unless all the conspiracies are just fronts for one giant one, but it doesn't seem that way in the manuscript. Its my understanding that they pseudo compete over resources, but their personal tastes aren't that important because they are largely unknown to each other.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by HunterInTheNight View Post
            Do demons form societies? I'm unable to get details on that question, and my own reading suggest agendas, but they're not really societies.
            Agencies. Larger size makes the risk of infiltration more fraught, but demons form Agencies to collaborate on common purposes, even if that common purpose is as basic as "no one demon can keep an eye on all the Infrastructure in the area on their own."

            And while they have similar issues, they cannot deal with them the same way in the slightest. Demons have covers, reality breaking powers, and the angels hunting them have their own covers so it becomes a giant cold war espionage thing. But this topic isn't about demons beyond the fact that they also exist in the city. Tell me about Deviants.
            Deviants are a bunch of wildly different beings united by common needs and enemies. Their psychology and the nature of their opposition is such that the more common unit of social cohesion for Renegades is the cohort, with conspiracies providing a larger structure for the Devoted to be hooked into much as angels are part of Infrastructure.

            Multiple covenants exist in the same city because they are linked together through the overarching vampire society. Deviant conspiracies are not. Unless all the conspiracies are just fronts for one giant one, but it doesn't seem that way in the manuscript.
            …That's literally what the game is referring to when it talks about the Web of Pain. Conspiracies are tied to other conspiracies for the practical reasons of staying out of each other's way and spotting opportunities.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #7
              Satchel has addressed most of your questions, but I'll add a bit more:

              Regarding the number of Deviants one might find in a city, the usual "as many as your plot requires" still applies, but my sense is that they're more common than most major splats. Yes, the failure rate of a conspiracy trying to make new Remade is eye-popping, and even a careful and highly successful conspiracy that is capable of some degree of "mass production" still makes mistakes that kill or permanently damage their subjects (without the consolation of Variations). But many conspiracies are not above unwrapping a lot of packs of collectable cards in order to get the foil rares they're looking for. That can result in a pretty large population of Deviants.

              To the question of groups of Broken larger than cohorts, conspiracies are constantly "recruiting" unattached Deviants, so one of the few ways to ward away those entreaties is to form a conspiracy of your own. Gudamiya (in the Darwin setting) is one example of such.

              Finally, the number of conspiracies a community has varies wildly. Towns and small cities aren't likely to have more than one (see Connellsville and Newark). Larger cities might have just a couple (Ankara) or lots (Darwin). The relationship between conspiracies that share the same territory likewise varies. Some are at each other's throats constantly (the Onachus vs. the Vigilance Society). Others are trading partners or outright allies.

              For troupes that want to map out the conspiracies in their cities so that they can establish these political relationships more thoroughly, we'll provide a bit more mechanical flesh to conspiracies in The Devoted Companion, when it comes out.


              Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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