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  • A few rules questions from a newbie

    I will be starting my first CofD chronicle pretty soon, and I have never played it. So I have some doubts from the corebook. Maybe the nice people at Onyx Path can help me?

    1st) It says penalties and bonuses are capped at +/-5. Does it mean from a single source, or from multiple sources? How do they stack? If I have +8 dice from many sources, and -5 from other sources, do I have a +3 (8-5) or +0 (cap of a +5 bonus, -5)? I guess even in combinations, bonuses or penalties bigger than 5 will be incredibly rare, but between willpower and bonus equipment and such, I think it´s not so hard so get a bigger total bonus than five if you really want...

    2nd) Most Defense values seems to be over 5 in the game, with only not very combat focused enemies having lower values. Does a Defense value higher than 5 applies a penalty higher than 5? For example, an enemy has a Defense of 8. A player character tries to hit him. Does he have a -8 penalty, or is it a -5, with the advantage of Defense values over 5 being more breathing room before penalties like injuries or multiple attacks apply, or higher dodge pools?

    3rd) An exceptional roll creates a Condition, but most example actions don´t mention it in their Exceptional Success section. Is the Condition created anyway, and it just mean that there isn´t an specific Condition attached to that specific action, or the rule means that generic rolls that don´t have an specific rule attached are the only one which create Conditions, and if the action doesn´t say anything about a Condition, it means that there is no Condition (and if there is a Condition mentioned, it means you are limited to that Condition)? This is probably my biggest doubt.



  • #2
    1. Multiple sources. Essentially, having a base dicepool of 6 or higher means you're unlikely to dramatically fail with penalties without upgrading a normal failure. In your example, you'd have a +3; the net modifier is what doesn't exceed +/-5.

    2. Defense and other Resistance Traits should be understood as intrinsic to the dicepool for the purposes of modifiers; having Defense over 5 suggests a thing about the character or at least is the product of a build or supernatural powers, and violent confrontation is designed to chew through Willpower for non-specialists.

    3. Exceptional success that doesn't have another defined exceptional success effect creates a relevant Condition. You can roll exceptional successes on an attack roll, for instance.


    Resident Lore-Hound
    Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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    • #3
      I would like to ask a followup on the bonuses question: How do they interact with teamwork?

      Leys say some werewolves have some medical contacts, they provide them with bleeding edge facilities, leading to a +5 bonus. Does the teamwork grant no bonuses ?

      Another scenario, a team of hunters is making a plan to take down a vampire coterie. They will use surprise and fear, shock and awe to isolate them from any help, trying to rout them with the swift decisiveness of a thunderclap. If all of them are methodical veterans, will the plan's bonus (since its considered mental equipment) be capped at +5 even with teamwork and careful preparations ?

      In our final example, a technological mage cabal is trying to prepare for a dangerous expedition. They are all gifted engineers, with knowledge of Science and Computers. They start enhancing their guns, protective gear and surveillance equipment. They know all this custom work would require a dedicated specialist with cutting edge tools to help them repair and resupply. They reason that the risk is worth it, since the aid of this custom gear may just save their lives. The more they push the bleeding edge of science, the more freedom they have for vital spellwork. In this case, are the bonuses also capped ?

      I understand the game design reasoning behind it. Without the caps, players will make better tools, which they will use to make superior tools to those, which they will repeat at nauseum, each pass creating more insane equipment. It would also mean there would be no reason why bigger organizations haven't done this to a ludicrous point as well. The limit encourages players to think laterally and use supernatural advantages rather than seeking bigger dice pools.

      However, thematically its easier to peak at the mundane limits of your specialty and limit the effects of teamwork. Has anyone implemented some kind of homebrew that incentivizes them to dive deeper into it without breaking the sanity check mentioned above ?
      Last edited by KaiserAfini; 12-01-2020, 11:18 AM.


      New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

      The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
      The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
        I would like to ask a followup on the bonuses question: How do they interact with teamwork?

        Leys say some werewolves have some medical contacts, they provide them with bleeding edge facilities, leading to a +5 bonus. Does the teamwork grant no bonuses ?

        Another scenario, a team of hunters is making a plan to take down a vampire coterie. They will use surprise and fear, shock and awe to isolate them from any help, trying to rout them with the swift decisiveness of a thunderclap. If all of them are methodical veterans, will the plan's bonus (since its considered mental equipment) be capped at +5 even with teamwork and careful preparations ?

        In our final example, a technological mage cabal is trying to prepare for a dangerous expedition. They are all gifted engineers, with knowledge of Science and Computers. They start enhancing their guns, protective gear and surveillance equipment. They know all this custom work would require a dedicated specialist with cutting edge tools to help them repair and resupply. They reason that the risk is worth it, since the aid of this custom gear may just save their lives. The more they push the bleeding edge of science, the more freedom they have for vital spellwork. In this case, are the bonuses also capped ?

        I understand the game design reasoning behind it. Without the caps, players will make better tools, which they will use to make superior tools to those, which they will repeat at nauseum, each pass creating more insane equipment. It would also mean there would be no reason why bigger organizations haven't done this to a ludicrous point as well. The limit encourages players to think laterally and use supernatural advantages rather than seeking bigger dice pools.

        However, thematically its easier to peak at the mundane limits of your specialty and limit the effects of teamwork. Has anyone implemented some kind of homebrew that incentivizes them to dive deeper into it without breaking the sanity check mentioned above ?
        In game i consider the bonus dice from teamwork as an exeption from the +5 bonus cap.
        From my point of view it s logical to set a cap for equipment and circumstance bonuses, as those things can help your skill to a certain limit.
        But if you put a group of people on a task, in lots of cases the more they are the better it gets, and it s more logical to put a limit instead on the max number of allowed partecipants.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Neos01 View Post

          In game i consider the bonus dice from teamwork as an exeption from the +5 bonus cap.
          From my point of view it s logical to set a cap for equipment and circumstance bonuses, as those things can help your skill to a certain limit.
          But if you put a group of people on a task, in lots of cases the more they are the better it gets, and it s more logical to put a limit instead on the max number of allowed participants.
          Very cool, that seems like a nice balance. It creates a reasonable cap on what a specialist can do alone, but incentivizes players to participate in all these different activities and keeps things fresh.


          New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

          The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
          The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KaiserAfini View Post
            I would like to ask a followup on the bonuses question: How do they interact with teamwork?
            Teamwork is a bonus and therefore works like any other.

            Leys say some werewolves have some medical contacts, they provide them with bleeding edge facilities, leading to a +5 bonus. Does the teamwork grant no bonuses ?
            More things can be suboptimal about their situation before the dicepool actually starts to shrink.

            Another scenario, a team of hunters is making a plan to take down a vampire coterie. They will use surprise and fear, shock and awe to isolate them from any help, trying to rout them with the swift decisiveness of a thunderclap. If all of them are methodical veterans, will the plan's bonus (since its considered mental equipment) be capped at +5 even with teamwork and careful preparations ?
            Yes, because equipment bonuses are capped at +5. The teamwork dice would be a separate bonus that would remain available even if the plan fell apart and would account for mitigating penalties as above.

            In our final example, a technological mage cabal is trying to prepare for a dangerous expedition. They are all gifted engineers, with knowledge of Science and Computers. They start enhancing their guns, protective gear and surveillance equipment. They know all this custom work would require a dedicated specialist with cutting edge tools to help them repair and resupply. They reason that the risk is worth it, since the aid of this custom gear may just save their lives. The more they push the bleeding edge of science, the more freedom they have for vital spellwork. In this case, are the bonuses also capped ?
            Without the use of magic that specifically breaks the cap, yes. Again, extra bonuses still help offset penalties.

            I understand the game design reasoning behind it. Without the caps, players will make better tools, which they will use to make superior tools to those, which they will repeat at nauseum, each pass creating more insane equipment. It would also mean there would be no reason why bigger organizations haven't done this to a ludicrous point as well. The limit encourages players to think laterally and use supernatural advantages rather than seeking bigger dice pools.
            The bigger concern is that past a certain point, not only have you turned the game into "bring a bucket for all the dice you'll be rolling," but once your bonus starts exceeding the skill and talent of an average practitioner it gets into the goofy reading that the equipment is what is accomplishing the task (by rolling well rather than facilitating the action at all).


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #7
              Don't forget that some of those bonus dice can be spent on things other then eliminating disadvantages, like time or scale.
              One man with tools that give a +5 bonus can build a really sturdy dog house, three men with those tools can build it in half the time. While a dozen men can raise a barn capable of sheltering sixty people in the same amount of time.
              This can even apply to things like tools. A +3 bonus for a good hammer can add to your dice pool, while a +5 hammer might actually be a nail gun that lets you drive the same number of nails in a fraction of the time but offer no bonus dice to be rolled because the nail gun is a little clumsy.

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