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How does Stun work?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Eric Zawadzki View Post
    I somehow missed the specified targets sidebar when trying to clean up the Stun mechanics for Deviant. I will see if I can slip in a "-1" after "the victim's Size."
    Not to be that guy but given the nature and age of the issue are you at liberty to say who you consulted on which part (Specified Targets or tilt description) is the wrong one?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The MG View Post
      Alright, so with this final clarification: has anyone played with the interpretation that turned out to be correct?

      My intuitive read is that being Stunned after a 5-damage blow would cause a sort of death-spiral scenario on top of the already existing wound penalties and Beaten Down Tilt, but I've only really run 1e fights, so I might be entirely off base.

      That's my fear too. I'm afraid that if I give the greenlight for the stun after 5 damage, characters ( and players) would die really fast. 5 damage for blow it's not difficult to do. Most weapons have a damage modifier of +2 -+3, you just need a couple of success to stun, and given the malus that stun gives, it's truly a death spiral scenario from there.

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      • #18
        Isn't combat supposed to be really dangerous though? I think making the stun tilt easy to inflect represents that. I mean you get hit with stun you better hope you have some allies that can protect you while you wait for it to wear off or spend that point of willpower and take the penalty.
        plus things like celerity are usually always broken. anything that lets you go first in combat is insanely powerful.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Grimmi05 View Post
          Isn't combat supposed to be really dangerous though? I think making the stun tilt easy to inflect represents that. I mean you get hit with stun you better hope you have some allies that can protect you while you wait for it to wear off or spend that point of willpower and take the penalty.
          The problem is that it isn't qualified. It doesn't say 5 lethal damage, just 5 damage. So if a mortal takes 5 damage, we can maybe justify them becoming stunned. But what about a Vampire who gets punched for 5 bashing? Why would they be stunned? The same applies to lots of splats; Werewolves, Prometheans, Mummies, Beasts - it really breaks immersion for these guys to get punched in the chest for 5 bashing damage and go down like a football player clutching their injury, particularly when you get into characters who are size 6+ and have 15 health levels.

          A more balanced version would be "a character who takes lethal damage equal to their size in a single hit must roll Stamina + Resolve. If they fail they take the stunned tilt".

          Originally posted by Grimmi05 View Post
          plus things like celerity are usually always broken. anything that lets you go first in combat is insanely powerful.
          It's a pretty poor argument to say that Celerity is already broken so it's okay to have other systems that make it even more broken

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          • #20
            Going first is great, but hardly gamebreaking. You're not guaranteed you'll actually be able to inflict some disadvantage on the opponent, and you've already spent your action so no dodging or being able to change plans based on what others do.
            As for the Stunned Tilt, combat is supposed to be lethal, yes, but having the lethality come from death spirals is bad game design. But on the other hand it's not a true death spiral because at least there's a way to break out of it and flee rather than just hoping for a lucky roll before you die.


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            • #21
              It doesn't say 5 damage though, it says [Size] damage, and I would assume that means damage taken after armor is factored in. Most vampires who have 15 health got there by having some dots of resilience, so an attack that gets 5 successes between dice and weapon modifier doesn't actually deal 5 damage. Werewolves get bigger and may be armored. Beasts that have 15 health probably got there through Anakim birthright/atavisms that increase effective size, etc.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Aurumae View Post

                The problem is that it isn't qualified. It doesn't say 5 lethal damage, just 5 damage. So if a mortal takes 5 damage, we can maybe justify them becoming stunned. But what about a Vampire who gets punched for 5 bashing? Why would they be stunned? The same applies to lots of splats; Werewolves, Prometheans, Mummies, Beasts - it really breaks immersion for these guys to get punched in the chest for 5 bashing damage and go down like a football player clutching their injury, particularly when you get into characters who are size 6+ and have 15 health levels.

                A more balanced version would be "a character who takes lethal damage equal to their size in a single hit must roll Stamina + Resolve. If they fail they take the stunned tilt".



                It's a pretty poor argument to say that Celerity is already broken so it's okay to have other systems that make it even more broken
                Yeah it does seem like the stun rules were made for mortals in mind and then just not really adjusted for the other splats. I can imagine a mortal getting punched and having the wind knocked out of him.
                and I wasn't defending stun for celerity just the fact that in most games that have highly lethal combat abilities that allow you to go first can usually break the game in other ways.

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