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  • #46
    Originally posted by Yuukale View Post
    While one might argue that some lines have enough 2e books as is, say... Demon, Vampire and maybe even Beast, other lines are pretty supplement starved such as Promethean and Geist.

    Damn, Geist has so many things that can be covered in 2e, in particular because 1e Geist was also book starved. At the very, very least it deserves a Night Horrors of its own.
    I would say that even Werewolf 2E do not have proper support for 2 of 5 their main Tribes antagonists, even now, with Shunned by the Moon - namely. Spirit-Ridden/Claimed and Hosts do not have proper mechanics in 2E to run them as antagonists for Hunters in Darkness and Storm Lords - you just got bunch of random examples for them, not detailing any more concrete, like powers or banishing/fighting tactics. At least Pure got their new powers...

    But talk over it I may move to WtF forum on that...


    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
    LGBT+ through Ages
    LGBT+ in CoD games

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    • #47
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

      I would say that even Werewolf 2E do not have proper support for 2 of 5 their main Tribes antagonists, even now, with Shunned by the Moon - namely. Spirit-Ridden/Claimed and Hosts do not have proper mechanics in 2E to run them as antagonists for Hunters in Darkness and Storm Lords - you just got bunch of random examples for them, not detailing any more concrete, like powers or banishing/fighting tactics. At least Pure got their new powers...

      But talk over it I may move to WtF forum on that...
      Werewolf is a particularly bad example of something a lot of CofD books are guilty of: hiding important rules inside of conditions and powers. As an example, the rules for standing up in combat are hidden in the resolution mechanic for the knocked down tilt, rather than in the combat section, and not all of the core books reprint this particular tilt (looking at you Vampire).

      The rules for Spirit Ridden are the same way. The Claimed manifestation on page 191 of Werewolf explains what happens mechanically when a Spirit claims a person or object and how it can end. Spirit Ridden can also be just possessed or controlled, which are again explained under those manifestations. I believe you are supposed to extrapolate that those rules in chapter 4 explain how the entities in chapter 5 were built, but the game never tells you that.

      Hosts on the other hand are worse. As best I can tell, the examples we have were built using the Horrors rules from the CofD core (which aren't reprinted in Werewolf) and given thematically/species appropriate Dread Power from page 210/211 of Werewolf. It's easy to miss, but the section on page 203 just before Funnel-Web explains which Dread Powers the Shartha tend to develop based on their species and the stage in their lifecycle. One essential rule that was missing was the mechanics for a Host invading a Human's body. This appears along with a treatment of how large their essence pools should be on page 107 of Shunned by the Moon.

      Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm pretty concerned that we're approaching the one year mark since a new CofD product entered the Monday meeting Notes (last was The Hedge 10 months ago) and the two year mark since we got a new Kickstarter (the last was Hunter 2e 18 months ago). I'm not sure at what point it becomes fair to say that the line has been abandoned, but those seem like two valid milestones.
      Last edited by Aurumae; 09-05-2021, 07:11 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Aurumae View Post
        Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm pretty concerned that we're approaching the one year mark since a new CofD product entered the Monday meeting Notes (last was The Hedge 10 months ago) and the two year mark since we got a new Kickstarter (the last was Hunter 2e 18 months ago). I'm not sure at what point it becomes fair to say that the line has been abandoned, but those seem like two valid milestones.
        I said this less than three months ago:

        Originally posted by Satchel View Post
        There's a point where healthy concern descends into doomcrying and this is getting well past the line.

        It's been a rough couple years for the world and RPGs in general have been slow for years. Chill.
        Eighty-three days is not enough time to change my stance on this topic.


        Resident Lore-Hound
        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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        • #49
          If I'm getting pinged over to this thread wyrdhamster Aurumae my stance hasn't changed

          http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...51#post1448951

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          • #50
            Chronicles is being killed?

            *looks at contracts*

            Yeah, sure.


            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
            Feminine pronouns, please.

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            • #51
              will we get a subforum for Deviant ?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Basic View Post
                will we get a subforum for Deviant ?
                Unlikely. As I understand it, there are some tech issues with adding any additional subforums, and nobody currently within OPP has the skill sets needed to overcome them (at least not without potentially wiping years of existing threads).


                Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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                • #53
                  OnyxPath has been very generous in the past on announcing projects and giving previews. Honestly I think this is really to there detriment, I think this thread is an example of that. It possible that they are turning down the flow of information for their own benefit, which I think would be smart. If I was running OP, I wouldn't even mention a product until a first draft has been turned in.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jeremysbrain View Post
                    OnyxPath has been very generous in the past on announcing projects and giving previews. Honestly I think this is really to there detriment, I think this thread is an example of that. It possible that they are turning down the flow of information for their own benefit, which I think would be smart. If I was running OP, I wouldn't even mention a product until a first draft has been turned in.
                    How would you do that when a lot of the projects are Kickstarter funded?

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                    • #55
                      I honestly just hope we will soon see some new books announced for Werewolf, Vampire and Mage.
                      I know about dark eras, but I really feel those great lines are dying. I strongly think the big 3 need more books for their amazing lore.


                      -'' We are the unsullied.
                      We are the inheritors.
                      We are the Pure ''-

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Helur View Post
                        I honestly just hope we will soon see some new books announced for Werewolf, Vampire and Mage.
                        I know about dark eras, but I really feel those great lines are dying. I strongly think the big 3 need more books for their amazing lore.
                        One problem, for Werewolf at least, is that that line was actually kind of too well developed over it's run. THere's still room to explore, but the 1E run of it was so legitimately strong and comprehensive that piecing together what remains to explore in ways that work together is a little challenging.

                        Not saying it's impossible or that there will never be more books, just saying "DAMN Werewolf already shockingly has so much of it's bases covered." THe Werewolf line is just that good.


                        Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                        Feminine pronouns, please.

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                        • #57
                          Yeah I feel like Werewolf doesn't really have any directions to go other than some kind of ground-up "break open setting restrictions" redesign. They did a good job with the 1E line.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                            One problem, for Werewolf at least, is that that line was actually kind of too well developed over it's run. THere's still room to explore, but the 1E run of it was so legitimately strong and comprehensive that piecing together what remains to explore in ways that work together is a little challenging.

                            Not saying it's impossible or that there will never be more books, just saying "DAMN Werewolf already shockingly has so much of it's bases covered." THe Werewolf line is just that good.
                            I disagree pretty strongly on this point. Werewolf 2e has tonnes of open design space.

                            One area that I would love to see covered is alternate Moon Gifts. The core book says that Werewolves can pick up Moon Gifts other than the ones listed in the core. Unfortunately, none of the books published to date give examples of alternate Moon Gifts. We have just one semi-official example - Chris Allen made a 2-part open development post on the blog about designing Werewolf Gifts for 2e, and in that he included an example alternate Cahalith Moon Gift. However it is difficult to even find that post today since was made almost 6 years ago.

                            Wolf Gifts and Shadow Gifts also pose problems. We have a good number of Shadow Gifts if you include those in Shunned By The Moon, but more would always be welcome. The biggest issue here is that 1e Gifts are totally incompatible with the way Gifts work in 2e, so converting that material would be a tonne of work for any home group to take on. Additionally, there are just three published Wolf Gifts and one semi-official one from the same blog post I mentioned above. That's a lot of open design space, and 1e did not have Wolf Gifts, so there is nothing to borrow from there.

                            Lodges are another wide open space. The core book doesn't have any, so the only Lodges we got were in The Pack. Unfortunately that book was trying to do a lot of different things, so Lodges got a fairly short treatment. There are five Lodges in The Pack, two of which are not really compatible with player characters (Temple of Apollo serve either an idigam or a void spirit, and Eaters of the Dead have a ban that requires them to break the Oath of the Moon). That leaves just three official Lodges for player characters. Converting 1e Lodges is similarly difficult. The main benefit 1e Lodges gave you was a discount on Experience costs, which is explicitly not a thing they can do in 2e. Instead, each Lodge needs a unique Blessing, Aspiration, Ban, and Sacred Hunt Refinement, none of which they possessed in 1e, so converting them would be a huge amount of work.

                            The other area that needs focus (and goes beyond Werewolf) is the Shadow. Spirits have changed enough from 1e that the Hisil, their relationships, and a lot of example Spirits are things that are frequently asked for by new Storytellers. A new Book of Spirits for 2e would be helpful across many game lines.

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                            • #59
                              Yeah, but isn't it OPP's policy for now to not retread previous ground, even when similarities are not as deep nowadays ?

                              I mean, I'd love for them to make new pure Covenant and Clan Books for Requiem -because they could be translated !- but I don't expect it to happen... and the Circle of the Crone would really need it, its Clanbook was the weakest of the lot and the covenant as changed a lot since then...

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Aurumae View Post
                                Lodges are another wide open space.
                                Which again, that's not really saying much since a lot of the Z-splats from the other gamelines like Bloodlines, Lodges, and Legacies don't have a lot of official 2e write-ups. It's not something exclusive to Werewolf.

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