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  • Shadowchaser
    started a topic CoD: any plans for the future?

    CoD: any plans for the future?

    Is there anything new planned for the CoD from Onyx Path?

  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    (although not listing any Geist 1e books for 2e makes sense considering, well, Geist having the biggest overhaul in mechanics and setting that nothing from 1e can really be applied to 2e without a LOT of rewriting)
    Also because, well. There was one Geist 1e book that existed as a Geist book. Book of the Dead was technically a bluebook, and Geist 1e Core referenced Antagonists, Midnight Roads, Second Sight, and Book of Spirits, but all the Geist 1e material written after the corebook was an SAS or part of a bluebook like Mirrors or Dark Eras. The line was (I think maybe explicitly) built to be a skeleton game as far as supplements went.

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  • Jeremysbrain
    replied
    Originally posted by Vintervalpen View Post

    How would you do that when a lot of the projects are Kickstarter funded?
    Most of their Kickstarter in recent years already have the manuscript for the project written before the Kickstarter goes live, so obviously it can be done.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Honestly, a big boon with earlier 2e corebooks was mentioning in the Recommended Reading sections older nWoD/CofD 1e books that could still apply to 2e...that they sadly phased out in later releases.

    (although not listing any Geist 1e books for 2e makes sense considering, well, Geist having the biggest overhaul in mechanics and setting that nothing from 1e can really be applied to 2e without a LOT of rewriting)

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Considering Onyx Path doesn't seem to be profiting any off of most of the old books, they would benefit from updating as much as possible.

    That said, regarding Werewolf, while first edition was a tight line there was a lot that was left unexplored or unexplained, and certain key elements that have changed drastically due to simple improvements across edition (notably the tribes and their sacred prey, which retools them from being just social groups). One of the big things left unexplored and, unfortunately, likely to be left unexplored is the Spirit world from its perspective as, at least partial, natives. The Book of Spirits comes closest to focusing on the area but it does so from a mortal point of view, to the level that people I've spoken to who know the Shadow solely through it believe the entire plane is a death trap. Also things like Spirit courts are meant to exist across the world but there's very little information about them or how to build them.

    While the forum may be a small percentage of the actual players and customers of the gameline, it shouldn't be hard to see what's missing or needs to be updated just through skimming through it. The same questions pop up in several lines, clarifications that have never been clarified, rules fragments left hanging. In addition, while there are things that are considered a 'given' to long-term fans, these same things can be complete unknowns to people brought in by second edition, and who are hesitant to buy a book from first edition that's going to be mostly useless.

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  • basketcase
    replied
    Originally posted by Vintervalpen View Post
    The thing is, a lot of us that started playing with 2nd edition don't own the 1st edition books and aren't interested in buying content for a game we're not playing, so there's huge black holes in the setting.

    I would love 1st edition rewrites. People that already own the 1e books wouldn't have to buy them.
    This is problematic, and is the main issue with second edition. long time fans and loyal customers don't want their books to be invalidated. new customers and arguably the future of CoD don't want outdated books.
    Onyx Path is rather unlikely to produce books that either group "wouldn't have to buy" or would be specifically undesirable to half of their customer base.

    My two cents is that even if the game systems in those books aren't an exact match to the 2ed edition they are still worth a read for what can be adapted either mechanically or narratively, and that goes for OWod as well. PDF copies of outdated 1e and OWoD books can be found rather cheap, even free.

    Either way, I don't think the setting black hole is as large as you might think it is. The books and mechanics are modular, use what you like ignore what you don't, change anything as you see fit and any holes are yours to fill in. I've always found CoD/NWoD makes a better toolbox than bible.

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  • Vintervalpen
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Unless it's necessary, do I want a new book to invalidate the books I already own on the subject?
    The thing is, a lot of us that started playing with 2nd edition don't own the 1st edition books and aren't interested in buying content for a game we're not playing, so there's huge black holes in the setting.

    I would love 1st edition rewrites. People that already own the 1e books wouldn't have to buy them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aurumae
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    I've never really had problems with adapting material over when and where I need it.
    I mean, this is a great position to find yourself in. I have neither the time nor the talent required to do this, so right now I feel like all the first edition books I own are useful for flavour but not much else.

    And it seems to me that there's a big difference between saying "Werewolf already has all of its bases covered" and saying "since I have no trouble converting old material, there is no need to revisit ground covered in 1e".

    As to your two questions, I don't think I have ever felt that a new book invalidated books I already own, and suggesting that those who can't make use of existing material are "some kind of idiot" seems rather unkind.

    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    As for me, I'd rather wait for a take that's really gonna blow my socks off rather than ask for a return to the treadmill.
    Given the choice between the treadmill and the current situation (no books for Werewolf in over 2 years and none on the horizon) I'd happily take the treadmill. I'd also settle quite happily or a book every year, or even every other year.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Two questions I always ask myself when it comes to what I want in books, with Chronicles at least:

    Unless it's necessary, do I want a new book to invalidate the books I already own on the subject?

    Do I want a new book to assume I am some kind of idiot that can't logicially use what I have to work to my advantage?

    Mind you, sometimes the answer to those is "Yes", because either time and talent hint at a better working of the material or I find a subject the actual application of my mind to a matter can't work out or otherwise meaningfully let go of.

    A lot of the times, though, the answer is no. The fact that the Second Edition has made the years I spent collecting books on the subject not feel like a waste of time and money is something I very much appreciate, and I've never really had problems with adapting material over when and where I need it.

    I'm always down for more material, but I do wonder how closely people look at their desires in light of that context. As for me, I'd rather wait for a take that's really gonna blow my socks off rather than ask for a return to the treadmill. While some retread or some assumption of explanation is inevitable, I'd rather see products that lean hard into answer no for those questions.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by Aurumae View Post
    Lodges are another wide open space.
    Which again, that's not really saying much since a lot of the Z-splats from the other gamelines like Bloodlines, Lodges, and Legacies don't have a lot of official 2e write-ups. It's not something exclusive to Werewolf.

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  • Ur-Than
    replied
    Yeah, but isn't it OPP's policy for now to not retread previous ground, even when similarities are not as deep nowadays ?

    I mean, I'd love for them to make new pure Covenant and Clan Books for Requiem -because they could be translated !- but I don't expect it to happen... and the Circle of the Crone would really need it, its Clanbook was the weakest of the lot and the covenant as changed a lot since then...

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  • Aurumae
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    One problem, for Werewolf at least, is that that line was actually kind of too well developed over it's run. THere's still room to explore, but the 1E run of it was so legitimately strong and comprehensive that piecing together what remains to explore in ways that work together is a little challenging.

    Not saying it's impossible or that there will never be more books, just saying "DAMN Werewolf already shockingly has so much of it's bases covered." THe Werewolf line is just that good.
    I disagree pretty strongly on this point. Werewolf 2e has tonnes of open design space.

    One area that I would love to see covered is alternate Moon Gifts. The core book says that Werewolves can pick up Moon Gifts other than the ones listed in the core. Unfortunately, none of the books published to date give examples of alternate Moon Gifts. We have just one semi-official example - Chris Allen made a 2-part open development post on the blog about designing Werewolf Gifts for 2e, and in that he included an example alternate Cahalith Moon Gift. However it is difficult to even find that post today since was made almost 6 years ago.

    Wolf Gifts and Shadow Gifts also pose problems. We have a good number of Shadow Gifts if you include those in Shunned By The Moon, but more would always be welcome. The biggest issue here is that 1e Gifts are totally incompatible with the way Gifts work in 2e, so converting that material would be a tonne of work for any home group to take on. Additionally, there are just three published Wolf Gifts and one semi-official one from the same blog post I mentioned above. That's a lot of open design space, and 1e did not have Wolf Gifts, so there is nothing to borrow from there.

    Lodges are another wide open space. The core book doesn't have any, so the only Lodges we got were in The Pack. Unfortunately that book was trying to do a lot of different things, so Lodges got a fairly short treatment. There are five Lodges in The Pack, two of which are not really compatible with player characters (Temple of Apollo serve either an idigam or a void spirit, and Eaters of the Dead have a ban that requires them to break the Oath of the Moon). That leaves just three official Lodges for player characters. Converting 1e Lodges is similarly difficult. The main benefit 1e Lodges gave you was a discount on Experience costs, which is explicitly not a thing they can do in 2e. Instead, each Lodge needs a unique Blessing, Aspiration, Ban, and Sacred Hunt Refinement, none of which they possessed in 1e, so converting them would be a huge amount of work.

    The other area that needs focus (and goes beyond Werewolf) is the Shadow. Spirits have changed enough from 1e that the Hisil, their relationships, and a lot of example Spirits are things that are frequently asked for by new Storytellers. A new Book of Spirits for 2e would be helpful across many game lines.

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  • Professor Phobos
    replied
    Yeah I feel like Werewolf doesn't really have any directions to go other than some kind of ground-up "break open setting restrictions" redesign. They did a good job with the 1E line.

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Helur View Post
    I honestly just hope we will soon see some new books announced for Werewolf, Vampire and Mage.
    I know about dark eras, but I really feel those great lines are dying. I strongly think the big 3 need more books for their amazing lore.
    One problem, for Werewolf at least, is that that line was actually kind of too well developed over it's run. THere's still room to explore, but the 1E run of it was so legitimately strong and comprehensive that piecing together what remains to explore in ways that work together is a little challenging.

    Not saying it's impossible or that there will never be more books, just saying "DAMN Werewolf already shockingly has so much of it's bases covered." THe Werewolf line is just that good.

    Leave a comment:


  • Helur
    replied
    I honestly just hope we will soon see some new books announced for Werewolf, Vampire and Mage.
    I know about dark eras, but I really feel those great lines are dying. I strongly think the big 3 need more books for their amazing lore.

    Leave a comment:

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