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[Deviant] Ask a Simple Question, Renegade-Style

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  • #16
    Does Deadly Ichor share Lash's ability to be purchased any number of times to represent different modes of counterattack?


    Resident Lore-Hound
    Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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    • #17
      Why not? The rulebook already allow you to purchase some variations more than once, after all.

      I have a question as well, the player can purchase variations from not native clades? Like a cephalist having chimerical variations and so on?
      Last edited by Ipergigio; 05-26-2022, 07:32 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
        I have a question as well, the player can purchase variations from not native clades? Like a cephalist having chimerical variations and so on?
        Yes. See the Characters Creation's "Variations" heading (p77), and "Acquiring Variations" (p108).


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        Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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        • #19
          Generally, no. Deadly Ichor already strains action economy. Allowing it to counterattack multiple times for every successful incoming attack would be a huge headache. That being said, if you limit it to one counter per attacker per turn (as is already stated in the RAW) regardless of how many Deadly Ichor versions you have, you could probably allow it at a table without such nightmarish consequences. Explaining it in-world might be a bit more complicated, though.


          Onyx Path Freelancer and Fantasy Author

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          • #20
            Hello it's me once again!

            According to rules, you have to pay a "conspiracy point" to buy a Variation Deviation. But what about Scar Deviations? You have to pay for them as well?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
              According to rules, you have to pay a "conspiracy point" to buy a Variation Deviation. But what about Scar Deviations? You have to pay for them as well?
              I have no idea what you mean by this.

              Deviations are gained by increasing the the Magnitude of their Variation or Scar as a floating alternative to going up to the next level of their default ladder of effects. You increase Variation Magnitude by having the entangled Scar Magnitude go up enough to support the change. Scar Magnitude goes up by marking medium or major Instability in your last five Stability boxes.

              Conspiracies have no direct mechanical impact on gaining Deviations — the reverse can be said, given how Standing is calculated as part of Threat Level at the beginning of a chronicle or for an unconnected conspiracy taking the main antagonist slot after the old one is destroyed, but none of the mechanics that could be described as "conspiracy points" have anything to do with rules for how a Deviant develops their powers.


              Resident Lore-Hound
              Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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              • #22
                But the dot you can put on your variations aren't determined by the conspiracy level threat plus a free scar dot?
                And variation/scar deviations have a cost as well?
                Last edited by Ipergigio; 05-29-2022, 01:55 AM.

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                • #23
                  Your character starts play with a total Magnitude of Variations as specified by Threat Level, plus your Origin's Scar-free dot.

                  Every Variation must be entangled with one Scar of equal or greater Magnitude, ignoring that one Scar-free dot. Scars may entangle multiple Variations of lesser Magnitude, but Variations never entangle with multiple Scars, no matter the Magnitude.

                  Deviations modify the effective Magnitude of their corresponding Variation or Scar. So a Magnitude 2 Variation with a +1 Deviation, a Magnitude 3 Variation with no Deviations, and a Magnitude 4 Deviation with a -1 Deviation all have the same effective Magnitude of 3 and must be entangled with at least a Magnitude 3 Scar. (Unless, of course, one of those dots of Variation Magnitude is the Scar-free dot, in which case you need at least a Magnitude 2 Scar.)

                  Scar Variations modify the effective Magnitude of their corresponding Scar the same way. A Magnitude 2 Scar with a +1 Deviation, a Magnitude 3 Scar with no Deviations, and a Magnitude 4 Scar with a -1 Deviation all have the same effective Magnitude of 3, and can thus entangle either one Magnitude 3 Variation, two Magnitude 2 Variations, or three Magnitude 1 Variations.

                  Deviations with positive values, like +1, exaggerate the trait they modify. Positive Variation Deviations make the Variation more powerful in some way. Positive Scar Deviations make the Scar more debilitating. Conversely, negative Deviations make Variations weaker or Scars less severe.

                  For the most part nothing cares whether a dot of Magnitude is being allocated to the base Variation/Scar or to a positive Deviation layered on top. It's all just entangling Variations to Scars and making sure the Scar Magnitude can support the Variations the Scar entangles. Do remember, though, that the Deviation's effects are layered on top of the effects of the pre-modified Variation or Scar. If a Variation deals bashing damage when bought at Magnitude 2 or lethal at Magnitude 3, and you buy it at Magnitude 2 and raise its Magnitude by adding a +1 Deviation that lets the Variation deal Leg Wrack or something, it's still going to do bashing damage and not lethal, even though you've raised its effective final Magnitude to 3.
                  Last edited by Stupid Loserman; 05-29-2022, 04:19 AM.

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                  • #24
                    And how many deviations can you apply to variations and scars?

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                    • #25
                      The effective Magnitude of a Variation or Scar after applying Deviations can't exceed 5. That's the only restriction.

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                      • #26
                        This character creation is going to harm my mental healt! Deviant isn't user friendly at all!

                        I'm about to play a level 7 threat story.
                        I have 7 + 1 dots for my variations, if I apply a +1 deviation to a magnitude 2 variation, it will cost me 3 dots at character creation, I'm right?

                        About scars deviations are free, the only limit is to not go below 1 and above 5 on magnitude?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                          This character creation is going to harm my mental healt! Deviant isn't user friendly at all!

                          I'm about to play a level 7 threat story.
                          I have 7 + 1 dots for my variations, if I apply a +1 deviation to a magnitude 2 variation, it will cost me 3 dots at character creation, I'm right?

                          About scars deviations are free, the only limit is to not go below 1 and above 5 on magnitude?
                          Okay.

                          Threat Level is a six-level scale that determines the Standing of the chronicle's initial antagonist conspiracy directly (the first Threat Level starts with a Standing 1 conspiracy, the second Threat Level starts with a Standing 2 conspiracy, etc) and the total Magnitude of Variations a character starts with that must be accounted for by the Magnitude of their Scars (approximately Threat Level*2.5, round down).

                          Deviations modify the Magnitude of the Scar or Variation they are attached to by the amount listed on the Deviation. The only Deviations that "don't count" are ones that add or subtract 0 Magnitude. You have to have enough Scar Magnitude to support the Magnitudes of the Variations you start with, whether by entangling each Variation with a Scar of equal Magnitude or entangling a single Scar with multiple lower-Magnitude Variations. A Scar can support one Variation of equal Magnitude, two Variations of a Magnitude one less than its own, three Variations of a Magnitude two less than its own, etc. Magnitude cannot go above 5 or below 1 on Scars or Variations.

                          If you are playing a chronicle whose starting Threat Level is Dysplasia, you have a Standing 3 conspiracy after you and 7 Magnitude of Variations that need to be accounted for with Scar Magnitude.

                          That Variation Magnitude could be accounted for through the Magnitude of the Variations' default effects entirely, or you could apply Deviations to raise the Magnitude without getting a higher-level basic effect — for example, you could have Bioluminescence 3 and either be able to project a beam of light bright enough to completely blind someone if Directed into their eyes (the normal Magnitude 3 effect), or you could make your whole body glow brightly enough to partially blind everyone within 40 yards with the Aura Deviation (+1 Magnitude on the Magnitude 2 effect).

                          The Scar Magnitude, again, just needs to be sufficient to support the Variations you have. If you have Brachiation 2, Carapace 3, Lash 2, you could entangle those respectively with Addictive Variation 2, Phobia 3, and Bestial Mind 2 (and the 3 dots of Magnitude in Phobia can come from having a phobia that you can't spend Willpower to overcome, a Common phobia that you can spend Willpower to overcome, or a Rare phobia that makes you Frightened or Insensate)

                          Alternately, you could entangle the two Magnitude 2 Variations (Brachiation and Carapace) with Conspicuous Appearance 3, giving you a smaller number of Scars to deal with at the cost of those Scars being worse without giving you access to a more powerful Variation; by the same token, you could entangle all three Variations with Phobia 5, which works the same as it would for Carapace 3 alone, except you would need to apply a Standard Deviation like Identifier, Nightmares, or Disfiguring Scar to increase the Magnitude of a Phobia that doesn't have the Common Deviation to bring its Magnitude up to 5, since Phobia does not have a Magnitude 5 effect in its default string of effects and it doesn't have any other +1 Deviations besides Common (which cannot be combined with Rare).

                          The Scar-free dot effectively allows you to treat the Variation it's applied to as though it were one dot lower for the purposes of Scar entanglement, such that, in the example above, you could increase the Magnitude of Brachiation, Carapace, or Lash by 1 (which one depends on the character's Origin) and not need to increase the Magnitude of any of the Scars to support it.

                          In sum: A Magnitude 3 Variation needs to be entangled with a Scar of at least Magnitude 3. Magnitude goes from 1 to 5, no lower or higher; within those limits, Deviations increase the Magnitude of their Variation or Scar by the amount listed on the Deviation. The only "free" thing in the process is the dot of subtle or overt Variation Magnitude afforded to you by your Origin. Total Magnitude by Threat Level is portioned across your starting Variations, which then need Scar Magnitude that can support those Variations individually and/or in combination.
                          Last edited by Satchel; 05-29-2022, 10:25 PM. Reason: Corrected the example of entangling multiple Variations with a single Scar.


                          Resident Lore-Hound
                          Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                          • #28
                            Ok I guess I'm starting to understand this is my wish list for my 7 magnitude dots:

                            VARIATIONS:
                            1 dot Lash
                            1 dot Lash
                            2 dot Otherwordly Connection (clade's free dot)
                            4 dot Monstrous Tranformation

                            SCARS:
                            2 dot Cooldown
                            2 dot Bane
                            4 dot Alternate Persona (deviations: invocation, superior persona)

                            Is anything correct?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Ipergigio View Post
                              Ok I guess I'm starting to understand this is my wish list for my 7 magnitude dots:

                              VARIATIONS:
                              1 dot Lash
                              1 dot Lash
                              2 dot Otherwordly Connection (clade's free dot)
                              4 dot Monstrous Tranformation

                              SCARS:
                              2 dot Cooldown
                              2 dot Bane
                              4 dot Alternate Persona (deviations: invocation, superior persona)

                              Is anything correct?
                              Otherworldly Connection 2 with the free dot counts as a Magnitude 1 Variation for the purposes of Scar entanglement, so you could either reduce the Magnitude of whichever Scar it's entangled with by 1 or get rid of one of the Magnitude 2 Scars and increase the Magnitude of the other to 3 and still have a valid setup. (You can also keep the excess Scar Magnitude, which can be used to entangle new Variations when you have the 4 Experiences to buy a new Variation.)

                              Also, your Scar-free dot of Variation Magnitude does not have anything to do with your Clade. Your Scar-free dot of Variation Magnitude comes from your Origin. Your Clade's mechanical impact on your Variations is that you can't have more than half of your total Variation Magnitude come from Clade Variations other than your own.


                              Resident Lore-Hound
                              Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                              • #30
                                Thank you very much! Finally I got it... hopefully.

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