Conditions for the Kubler-Ross Model (The Five Stages of Grief)

[MachineIV]

Earlier, Joseph Carriker was asking how we'd model the five stages of grief in the GMC rules. So, for my morning writing exercise, I tossed him my take on the Kubler-Ross model of grief, as a series of five Conditions. If you're so inclined, check it out.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

[MachineIV]

You know what might be awesome, and especially poignant with the themes of vampire? Instead of giving the player two weeks after losing a touchstone to find a new one or gain Lethargic, give them Denial. If they find a new Touchstone before reaching Acceptance, they Resolve what ever stage they're currently up to, and they're good. If they would reach Acceptance before finding a new Touchstone, they gain Lethargic instead.

That's a really cool idea. I like that a lot.

[Charlaquin]

You know what might be awesome, and especially poignant with the themes of vampire? Instead of giving the player two weeks after losing a touchstone to find a new one or gain Lethargic, give them Denial. If they find a new Touchstone before reaching Acceptance, they Resolve what ever stage they're currently up to, and they're good. If they would reach Acceptance before finding a new Touchstone, they gain Lethargic instead.

[MachineIV]

May I ask, David, your opinion on applying these conditions to vampires? A friend of mine made a point that this doesn't quite fit vampiric existence and its effects are already covered by the "lethargic" condition. Would you apply these conditions on vamps?

I think they'd work fine. Although, you have to frame them a little differently for Mask and Dirge.

I think they could make a passable replacement for Lethargic if you wanted a different angle for Touchstones.

[Yuukale]

May I ask, David, your opinion on applying these conditions to vampires? A friend of mine made a point that this doesn't quite fit vampiric existence and its effects are already covered by the "lethargic" condition. Would you apply these conditions on vamps?

[Yossarian]

...I need to use these in games...

[MachineIV]

Correct. Kubler-Ross did express that the model was not meant as an exhaustive list of emotions people can experience related to grief, they are not always all experienced, and they can be experienced in any order. Everyone experiences. It's also far from the only model for grief, just the most well-known. But that's what other Conditions are for. Plus as ST there's always the option of starting a player off on a different stage, or letting them Resolve the Condition by different means and move onto a different stage.

Yeah. Using a few hundred words to express something that's gotten entire books of attention is difficult. So you often have to simplify. As with any Conditions, modify and fuss with to suit the context and your game's needs.

[Charlaquin]

Hmm. The Resolution for Acceptance bugs me because a high Resolve+Composure characters would have a far more significant difficulty achieving that condition. Also, I remember that The Five Stages of Grief doesn't always go in that order, or that you don't exactly HAVE to go through all four before achieving Acceptance.

Correct. Kubler-Ross did express that the model was not meant as an exhaustive list of emotions people can experience related to grief, they are not always all experienced, and they can be experienced in any order. Everyone experiences. It's also far from the only model for grief, just the most well-known. But that's what other Conditions are for. Plus as ST there's always the option of starting a player off on a different stage, or letting them Resolve the Condition by different means and move onto a different stage.

[egreham]

Hmm. The Resolution for Acceptance bugs me because a high Resolve+Composure characters would have a far more significant difficulty achieving that condition.

Also, I remember that The Five Stages of Grief doesn't always go in that order, or that you don't exactly HAVE to go through all four before achieving Acceptance.

[wyrdhamster]

NPC sleepwalker sister of our Mastigos psychiatrist seen her werewolf boyfriend massacred. I think those Conditions may come useful now.

[Charlaquin]

These are really cool. I love how the Resolution criteria for each stage play into the behavior of the following stage. I will definitely use these if one of my players' characters ever has a terminal illness or a close friend or family member die.