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Updating Some Immortals! [PEACH]

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  • amechra
    replied
    You know, I've been wondering about that.

    Eternals get back up one day later if their totem object isn't destroyed - so theoretically you could stick around the same Eternal and kill them everyday, racking up an insane lifespan.

    Since the Harvester chapter makes it sound like they have to hunt around for them (and that, you know, they're Harvesters not Farmers), I feel like the Scythe was intended to perma-kill Immortals... but I'm not sure.

    I'd be inclined to say that actual death is a requirement; Reborn are a loophole (an awesome one; you have to find the kid, after all), but an Eternal would only count if you perma-killed them, a Warden would only count if you dragged them out of the place they were watching over, Purified (and Spirits) would only count if you killed them at 0 Essence, Visitors would only count if you chopped their heads in two, etc, etc.

    I'm probably going to fix them up so they don't get stuff from killing mortals, though.

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  • Penta
    replied
    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    Also really old immortals are a limited resource. You kill them all and it'll take centuries to grow more.
    If we include Reborn as immortals that can be harvested, and we count their age starting with their first birth, we could theoretically have a replenishing resource of very old immortals, as killing a Reborn physically does not necessarily prevent rebirth.

    Technically this way a Harvester could live forever by stalking and killing the various incarnations of one old Reborn over the ages.

    This would also explain the worth of the Blue Bodhisattva from the intro fiction.

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  • Elfive
    replied
    Also really old immortals are a limited resource. You kill them all and it'll take centuries to grow more.

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  • NeoTiamat
    replied
    I suspect this rapidly turns into a demographics question. How many Harvesters do we assume exist, how old are they on average, how many immortals do we think exist, and how old are they on average?

    Depending on how you answer, the ratio of Stolen Time to actual time necessary to make Harvesters "work" changes. I tend to assume that very old characters are quite rare (the number of immortals over a thousand years old is less than a hundred globally, excluding torpid vamps), so centuries-old Harvesters become unfeasible. But that's just my assumption for my game. Different folks will have different assumptions.

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  • Elfive
    replied
    I think the reason it only works on supernaturals in the book is that it effectively eats the magic propping them up. That's why you get more time the older the thing is.

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  • helel
    replied
    You’re welcome to the Stolen Time condition.

    My take on Harvesters is that they are supposed to be unreliable, most only spending some time immortal and suffering time and age between the times they can down their prey. Still, if you want to break down the 3 years per century it’s about 11 stolen days per year. You could give half that for mortals but then you just wind up with immortal serial killers who stalk hospice care for the best kills.

    As to the stolen weapon, there’s a matter of interpretation there. You could read “If stolen, the scythe provides life to the Harvester who uses it as meaning that the Scythe gives life to the Harvester that uses it, not the one that made it or you could read it as stealing the Scythe steals all the immortality from the first Harvester.

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  • NeoTiamat
    replied
    *nod* That might work. I was mostly thinking that immortals are supposed to be rare, and yet a Harvester needs to find them by the bushel to actually survive long-term. Plus I was thinking of vampires as the most common 'immortals', and anyone trying to hunt elder vamps regularly is going to get in over her head in short order.

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  • amechra
    replied
    Hm... I might consider upping it to 1 year for every 40 - the issue is that I removed the "Immortal" clause there, so you could go around killing normal people whose lives were extended for their sweet, sweet years of life. If I did that, I'd have actual immortals count as twice their actual age for the purposes of how many years you steal.

    That way, a 100-year old Immortal would give you 5 years of life, which cuts Miss Black Death to a more reasonable 12,000 years of Immortals (she specializes in Eternals, if I remember correctly, which were noted to sometimes be thousands of years old.)

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  • NeoTiamat
    replied
    I realize that this is a carry-over from the original Immortals book, but I would hugely up the amount of Stolen Time received. At the moment, you only gain Stolen Time if you slay something 100 years old. And for that, you get just three years. Yet in the Immortals book, there is one character who survived from the Black Death -- call it 600 years ago for ease of math, she had to have killed beings who have collectively lived for 20,000 years. Seems a stretch.

    I'd say make the ratio more like 1 Stolen Time for 4 Years of Life or some such.

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  • amechra
    replied
    The Patchwork People and Ghouls are entirely different cases.

    One is entirely passive and doesn't give access to stuff that Mortals can't buy with their XP. Patchwork People also only have the features listed in the Condition I posted - heck, they still have access to mortal only merits!

    As for Harvesters... they do if its stolen, not just used by someone else. If someone else takes your Scythe and hunts with it, they get all your stolen time. You can only "share" a Scythe if you're both using it to kill the same guy - if one of you runs off and uses it without the other, that guy loses all of his extra time. The reason that I'm not going for the "chance of stunlocking a Supernatural for a scene each time I hit them" is that that's... no. That's not something you'd include if you were to ever use Harvesters in a mixed Mortal+ game.

    I do like that Condition though - mind if I steal it?

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  • helel
    replied
    I would argue that Clockwork Heart is a lesser template, not a Condition. It is their defining characteristic and the thing that sets them apart from ordinary mortals. Sure, you can write it up as a Condition but you could do the same for Ghouls if you wanted.

    That said "takes 1 unhealing Bashing a month" makes sense as a Condition these people get if they go too long without a tuneup.

    For the Harvesters, if you're sticking to the Imortals book they don't lose their stolen time when somebody else uses the Scythe. Two (or more?) Harvesters can share one weapon if they wish. If you're remaking it GMC style the Scythe should get it's good traits (Durability, stun, whatever) and when it is used in killing an immortal grant the "Stolen Time" condition with 3 years per victims century split between the Harvesters involved.

    Stolen Time (Persistant)
    This Condition provides a store of time during which the subject does not age. Additionally while ageless the character heals at a rate of 1 Bashing per minute, 1 Lethal per hour, and 1 Aggravated per 4 hours and can regenerate lost limbs and other normally unhealable injury. When the stolen time runs down the character resumes aging and healing at a normal rate. More time can be added to this Condition by use of any Scythe they can kill an immortal with.
    Caused By: Use of a Harvester's Scythe
    Resolution: Stolen Time is resolved if the last Scythe the character used is destroyed. Resolution causes the character to age one decade per minute until they reach their true age.

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  • StSword
    replied
    Well you could certainly turn the harvesters into a hunter conspiracy, the book mentions some of them are already hunters, keeping their actual nature secret.

    So without altering things too much, they'd be more like a cult than a conspiracy, possibly infiltrating some compacts and conspiracies.

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  • LostLight
    replied
    Personally, I've always thought about the Harvesters as some sort of hunter conspiracy- but considering you presented it as a merit, there is no reason why it shouldn't work together :P Any way, good job!

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  • amechra
    replied
    Ah, I had missed that. Shows me for assuming that B&S's combat chapter was identical to GMC's.

    You know, I might drop the bit where they stunlock, and think of something more enjoyable than "hit 'em until they stop moving, then butcher them". The intent of the original feature was, after all, to make them a threat to supernaturals, many of whom could crush you like an egg. Maybe reduce their penalties for aiming at particular body parts by 1, or let them get an Exceptional Success against physical supernaturals with 3 successes instead of 5? That would definitely help...

    If you think it's too much, I can reduce the healing rate. Or, rather, I can change it up a bit; most of the Immortals in the book heal faster than normal and can regenerate limbs, so I might as well collect that in one place.


    As for the Eternals and Visitors... I'll work on 'em.

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  • Penta
    replied
    I would change the part about the stun quality of the Harvester's Scythe for reasons outlined in this thread: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...en-gmc-and-b-s

    To clarify, under the most recent rules, the stun quality only affects blows to the head, while the intention of the Harvester's Scythe is that has a chance of stunning the opponent with each strike, possibly stunlocking them. I would just keep the contested roll (Stamina + Resolve vs. the victim's Stamina + Supernatural Advantage) as it is a magical effect.

    Also, I think 5 XP is far to cheap for this "magic item", but still being a Merit I do not see many other options (unless magical items worth more than 5 Merit dots stay a thing, in Mage for example). Using the first edition Mage or Reliquary rules, I would gauge it as a 7 or 8 dot Merit.

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