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Inferno: 2nd Edition

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  • Inferno: 2nd Edition

    Now, while it is unlikely to come to pass, let us say there was talk about updating the Inferno book to Second Edition. Yay or nay? Do you think Inferno needs an update? If so, what would you like to see and what would you like changed from the first book? We're already talking Second Sight, so let's give demons some love too, eh?

    Personally, I would love to see more details on the L'enfant Diabolique, which is a concept I see a lot of potential in that was sadly untapped. Maybe not as playable characters but more mechanics and fluff on how they work. Is evil really natural to them, what is their role in cults? Do they actively work with or for Infernal demons, or do they primarily do their own thing? How does the creation of one of these beings even happen when demons are intangible creatures without the potential to produce offspring with most not-Twilight creatures? I really like the idea and would like to see more of it.

  • #2
    Definitely yay. Inferno was one of my personal favourites books of previous-nWoD. I'd like to see development in the Empyrean area, as i think the definition of Virtue-specific spirits is still left somewhat vague... and could be as awesome as the description of the Demons that Inferno settled.


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    • #3
      Inferno, to me, is heavily tied to the Hunter gameline. I personally say that it should be included in the Hunter 2e book first.

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      • #4
        That's a book that definitely needs update to second edition(along with Second Sight, Innocents, Skinchangers and Immortals in that order for me)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MCN View Post
          Inferno, to me, is heavily tied to the Hunter gameline. I personally say that it should be included in the Hunter 2e book first.

          While heavily tied, I'd still consider it purely a blue supplement. Let's not exclude the average mortals and the rest of gamelines out of the Inferno fun For example, I won't be getting Hunter books... but a blue book about inferno - that's a different matter.


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          • #6
            I wouldn't like to see as much a remake of Inferno, as just additional material for it. When you consider how much Demons, sin and vice are brought up in WoD, its sorta funny that the actual forceses of Hell are relegated to a single blue book supplement. I love the book Inferno to death, especially the extrapolated "Hell Vs Heaven" you can create fairly effectively with the Empyriean Page and Hunters, but I'm afraid that a new rendition of it, would be overshadowed by the entire "God-Machine/Mechanical Demons". If a new rendition was to be made, it would be important to somehow clarify that that games setting is entirely seperate from that of the God-Machine, which I think would be difficult to pull off. I have faith that if the writers decide to attempt it, that they'll do a good job, but I would saddened to see the Inferno setting smothered by the God-Machine and its interpritation of Demons. Dont get me wrong, I think the God-Machine and its bio-mechanical Demons are immensely awesome, but I wouldn't like them to gobble up the setting and themes of Inferno.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Krobeles View Post
              I wouldn't like to see as much a remake of Inferno, as just additional material for it. When you consider how much Demons, sin and vice are brought up in WoD, its sorta funny that the actual forceses of Hell are relegated to a single blue book supplement. I love the book Inferno to death, especially the extrapolated "Hell Vs Heaven" you can create fairly effectively with the Empyriean Page and Hunters, but I'm afraid that a new rendition of it, would be overshadowed by the entire "God-Machine/Mechanical Demons". If a new rendition was to be made, it would be important to somehow clarify that that games setting is entirely seperate from that of the God-Machine, which I think would be difficult to pull off. I have faith that if the writers decide to attempt it, that they'll do a good job, but I would saddened to see the Inferno setting smothered by the God-Machine and its interpritation of Demons. Dont get me wrong, I think the God-Machine and its bio-mechanical Demons are immensely awesome, but I wouldn't like them to gobble up the setting and themes of Inferno.
              considering all the wordcount they used again and again in order to clarify that Inferno's demons are separate thing from the Descent ones, I don't think that in the theoretical case they'll give Inferno a second addition they would just through everything away and say "so now they are the same! now, lets make Geist into spirit claimed and be absorbed into Werewolf!"


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              • #8
                Originally posted by LostLight View Post

                considering all the wordcount they used again and again in order to clarify that Inferno's demons are separate thing from the Descent ones, I don't think that in the theoretical case they'll give Inferno a second addition they would just through everything away and say "so now they are the same! now, lets make Geist into spirit claimed and be absorbed into Werewolf!"
                I know. As I mentioned, I am hardly afraid that they'll make them precisely the same thing, but rather afraid that the idea of the unopposable and uncompromising power of Hell and/or Empyriean, will be dimminnished by the neigh omnipotent the God-Machine.

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                • #9
                  amm... I don't know if you noticed, but last time I've checked there are a number of "omnipotent" forces in WoD beside the God Machine- the Principle, the Wyrd, Fate, the Devourer and the Supernal to name a few. Adding the Devil and/or God to the mix won't change much. This is why the "canon" view is that the God Machine is as powerful as you want it to be.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                    amm... I don't know if you noticed, but last time I've checked there are a number of "omnipotent" forces in WoD beside the God Machine- the Principle, the Wyrd, Fate, the Devourer and the Supernal to name a few. Adding the Devil and/or God to the mix won't change much. This is why the "canon" view is that the God Machine is as powerful as you want it to be.
                    First of all, lets try to be polite here.
                    Secondly, yes, the Principle, the Wyrd, Fate and the Supernal are power forceses of nature, but therein lies the rub. They are forces of nature, like gravity. Its not like Fate or the Supernal will send an avatar of itself, to kick your ass because you fucked with its timeshare. The Principle might do that, but its just as likely to send an avatar of itself to bless you with divine strenght and good fortune because you fucked with said timeshare. Though it does have agents, they are as much a conundrum as the Principle itself, which remains incredibly vaguely defined.
                    I dont know what "The Devourer" is, so I cant comment on that.

                    None of the ones I commented on are as clearly defined and "in your face" as the God-Machine. The merest existance of them are a question not without its merit, whereas the God-Machine is visibly and tangibly real and out to get you.

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                    • #11
                      The thing with Inferno was that the possessed actually gelled really well with the old, buggy morality system. They've got an alien presence in their head dragging them down to commit atrocities and driving them nuts while it was at it. Plus the whole sin theme. Integrity just doesn't feel as right with the system.

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                      • #12
                        As one o more avid STs to run Maeljin's of Werewolf as a Demon Princesses of Inferno I will tell something from our game playtests.

                        Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                        The thing with Inferno was that the possessed actually gelled really well with the old, buggy morality system. They've got an alien presence in their head dragging them down to commit atrocities and driving them nuts while it was at it. Plus the whole sin theme. Integrity just doesn't feel as right with the system.
                        I do not see this a problem. In 1ed Morality you had a outside sins - rigid structures you need to adhere. In 2ed Integrity rules you have your own sins - things that are destroying your inner "stability". But they are both sins. They are still about transgression. And this turmoil characters are receiving from lowering Integrity, demons of Inferno can use to make stronger impact on the Possessed. Think about it - who is more easier to control in mortal realm - man that is doing many bad things from the outside point ( 1ed low Moerality ), or the man that has lost his inner compass and is unstable emotional ( 2ed low Integrity )? I would put my money on the second option as the Demon Lord.

                        The problem of 2ed rules for the Inferno is that Virtue and Vice are now open, so anyone can choose anything they think is their "good" and "bad" side. But taking really a look on the sheet and think for 5 minutes will lend you answers. By the example from GMC, character with Vice of Ambitious, is, in reality, working for the Pride Great Sin. It does not matter he thinks he is not egocentric - he's "ambition to the death ( his or his close ones )" is Pride in other disguise. The Inferno book would say it's just different Malepraxis.

                        Second, as to the "God Machine vs Inferno" problem, I resolved this long ago, in my DtD setting shard. We can have two ( or even more ) forces that use angelo- and demonology imaginary in various lines - becuase the nWoD is created on assumption of Great Mystery of the settings. I even see very much the positives of this kind marriage - it's the most crossover-friendly stuff in all the lines. All we need in Inferno 2ed to have two new Agendas for Unchained for Inferno and Empyrean support, and we are golden.
                        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 02-05-2015, 12:51 PM.


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                        • #13
                          The multiple demon types thing was never a problem because nwod already had about 3 sorts anyway. Same with angels.

                          Old style Virtue and Vice could just make a comeback for the possessed in the same way that Vamps replace them with Mask and Dirge.

                          Maybe just Vice for demons and just Virtue for angels.

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                          • #14
                            We've had a thread about this before, I'd link it but I don't want to look for it.

                            You could easily keep the GMC Vice and Virtue system, especially if you went as wyrdhamster says and kept the integrity system, which instead of allowing moral cracks to let the demons in, allows other cracks to do the same. With Vice and Virtue it is, each deimply end up with more demons. As it is, each demon has a malpraxis, a vice and a thing. Moving away their vices from the Seven Sins simply allows for more demons, urging you to give into that vice to extreme degrees, or in situations where you shouldn't, or corrupting it.

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                            • #15
                              Actually thinking about it it does let you run angels without awkwardly inverting the mechanics as much. Low-integrity angel possessed who have become obsessed with policing everyone around them, for example.

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