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  • Replacing the "God Machine"

    I really love the NWOD setting and the streamlined systems. But then Demon the Descent moved away from true demons and introduced the "God Machine". I absolutely hate this concept. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to completely remove Demon the Descent and replace it with cWOD Demon the Fallen but still use the NWOD systems.

  • #2
    You could just not play Demon the Descent.


    Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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    • #3
      There's plenty of material in 1e that can be interpreted as belonging to that particular gameline. The God Machine was something that started out as fluff, and then interest in it spiraled into the GM getting its own chronicle. There are plenty of hooks to build on that you don't need D:tD — such is the sandbox nature of WoD.


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      • #4
        Originally posted by revanauditore92 View Post
        I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to completely remove Demon the Descent and replace it with cWOD Demon the Fallen but still use the NWOD systems.

        The Demon Translation Guide is being worked on which will bring Fallen into nWoD. It will be a while though. I believe there's a fan made update of Fallen to nWoD floating around somewhere but I haven't seen it in a while. Hope that helps.
        Last edited by Badger King; 04-02-2015, 01:59 AM. Reason: Original post made me sound like a jerk

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        • #5
          Originally posted by revanauditore92 View Post
          But then Demon the Descent moved away from true demons and introduced the "God Machine". I absolutely hate this concept.
          Your complaint is vague, your terminology is poorly defined, and your opinion is utterly irrelevant to the reasonable thing you are asking after, all of which is business as usual for this type of discussion, which has been had multiple times with an overabundance of vitriol.

          Literally the only thing you had to do was ask if there was a Translation Guide in the works for Demon: the Fallen, as there has been one for Vampire: the Masquerade, Werewolf: the Apocalypse, and Mage: the Ascension; as has been highlighted above, there is indeed a DtF/DtD Translation Guide being written, and as highlighted above, there is no force employed by Onyx Path Publishing that can cause you to play Demon: the Descent against your will.*

          * I would put a jocularly menacing "Yet." here, but experience suggests this is an unwise line of frivolity to pursue.


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          • #6
            To give a slightly less cheeky response than my first post, could you be more specific about what you mean by "true demons"? Aside from the technological aesthetic (which is actually not that crucial to D:tD), they are very good examples of the fallen angel concept. They used to be angels, they failed to carry out God's plan, fell from grace, and now hide among humanity from their vengeful creator. They make deals for people's souls like you would expect a demon to do. True, they're more former angels in the process of falling than full-on post-fall devils, and the setting's dogma is a little on the Gnostic side, but they are very much true demons in my book. If the machine aspect is all that bothers you, it's really easy to just ignore that part, and doesn't damage the play or mechanics at all. If you have a different problem with their demon-ness, you'll need to be more specific about what that problem is. There is a translation guide in the works to convert D:tF to D:tD and vice-versa, but it's going to take a while and in the mean time your options pretty much boil down to re-fluffing D:tD to fit within your view of what "true demons" are, or not playing D:tD. And there's nothing wrong with the latter option if you genuinely hate D:tD. The world of darkness got on fine without it for almost 10 years before D:tD was written, there's no reason you can't just continue playing without involving demons in your games.


            Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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            • #7
              I shouldn't, but I must say something. So, after picking through the myraid of my usual responses, I just want to ask:

              Is "God" so much better a concept than a "God-Machine"?

              I'll stop there.


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              • #8
                Replace god-machine with Azothoth, and boom you have a game of eldritch abominations pretending to be humans with magical powers that are magic from technology hiding from a lovecraftian deity.

                No, wait, demon the descent is already a game about eldritch abominations pretending to be humans with magical powers that are magic from technology while hiding from a lovecraftian deity.


                Anyway, to the OP, you may want to buy inferno, which covers the demons from various religions as spirits of sin, and has rules for demonic pacts and those possessed by such demons.
                Last edited by StSword; 04-02-2015, 03:17 AM.

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                • #9
                  Speaking as a huge Descent fan, and someone who will argue that it has plenty of influence from more traditional stories of demons and angels? Yeah, it honestly isn't that easy to run without the God Machine.

                  It's not at all hard to run without the technological aesthetic. Rename the demonic form abilities (I took a stab here), replace descriptions of draining aetheric waste-heat from infrastructure with lines about hunting down and devouring the divine spark from modern sacred sites and disguised hallows, talk about Embeds tapping into the secret laws of Creation rather than hacking into the logistical substrata of the universe, call cryptids nephilim, you've got a solid spy game about more classical fallen angels in the modern world.

                  But the "machine" part of the God Machine that's hard to remove isn't the part where it has gears and furnaces and its angels have syringes for fingers. It's the part where God isn't numinous, where God is a part of the world and his will is manifest through physical plans that can be interrupted. That's good for Descent's poststructuralist social critique, and it's great for gameplay where you have attainable goals and clear results of your achievements, but it's not a traditional representation.

                  Fortunately, if you want to run something more like Fallen, you have an out. Fallen is sometimes implied to take place in a world where the Creator and His angelic host have departed from the world in the wake of a primeval fall that broke the world. Just run with half of that. Angels are still around, but in the absence of the Creator, they're weak, they've become the ephemeral angels of Descent with statblocks whom you can defeat, and who depend on what energies of creation they can produce from mortal loyalties to manifest and sustain themselves (a.k.a. non-technological Infrastructure — angelic cults, holy laborers and blessed hidden sanctuaries). Rather than the eye of the God Machine, you adopt human Cover to evade the remnants of the angelic host, while you do whatever fallen angel things your character does — get your filthy hands on temporal influence or occult power, seek revenge on the angels, repent and do what good you can in the spaces between, try to figure out what's going on and, perhaps, get closer to the universal plan than the scattered and confused angels are now. Hey, look at that, those are basically the four Agendas!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                    I shouldn't, but I must say something. So, after picking through the myraid of my usual responses, I just want to ask:

                    Is "God" so much better a concept than a "God-Machine"?

                    I'll stop there.

                    This. God-Machine is so much better than "God" :P

                    And as others have stated, refluffing everything is pretty easy, to fit other religions, an omnipowerful being, demons... as long as you don't mind their powers being focused on hiding/espionage and a little bit more on technology (but those can be dropped)


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                    • #11
                      I love Demon, but it is very easy to run New WoD without it. The easiest way to remove it is just not use it.


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                      • #12
                        First things first, nothing is concrete in the nWoD. If you don't like the God-Machine, you just say it doesn't exist, and it doesn't; you aren't violating canon or anything, like with oWoD. D:tD is a fantastic game and really deserves a second look. Once you drop your expectations of classic Abrahamic demons, you'll find a stellar urban fantasy-horror espionage game.

                        If you want more old-school demons, then Inferno has you covered, complete with the Possessed; folks ridden by critters of the Seven Sins. Hunter: the Vigil adds a playable group called the Lucifuge, who are mortals with the blood of Hell running through their veins. And then there's the Translation Guide for Demon on the horizon.


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                        • #13
                          What exactly do you not like? If it's just the bio-tech aesthetic then it's easy enough to trade that out for Christian imagery. I say Christian because Jewish angels can be pretty bizarre, and hellfire and brimstone and angels with dove wings is basically a Christian thing.

                          Without detailing any other opinion I might have, I will say that, while Demon: the Descent does everything right while exploring new territory as it retains the 'fallen angel' concept, if ever I ran it I would probably wait for the Translation Guide, too

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by revanauditore92 View Post
                            I really love the NWOD setting and the streamlined systems. But then Demon the Descent moved away from true demons and introduced the "God Machine". I absolutely hate this concept. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way to completely remove Demon the Descent and replace it with cWOD Demon the Fallen but still use the NWOD systems.
                            • Use Inferno adapted to the revised rules
                            • Use the strix from Blood and Smoke
                            • Use the Myriad of types of Demons from Mage
                            • You could adapt the Angels/demons from Promethean
                            God Machine setting is optional. Take whatever you want file off the serial numbers and use it for your own purposes.


                            If you want By Night Studios to release new LARP RULES for NWoD,
                            like this post.

                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]temp_62_1418088885567_853[/ATTACH]

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                            • #15
                              Mortal Remains ( a hunter book ) sort of reframes the descent demons as not necessarily technological. ("Sort of" should be very loosely understood.)
                              The demons that hunters talk to don't talk about the God-machine so much as the "Demiurge", the gnostic God of this world.


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                              Mage: the Awakening 2E - Hogwarts: the Wizarding World Chronicle
                              Mummy: the Curse - Lightweight 2E Conversion; Disciples of Duat

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