[CofD] Defense vs. Firearms

[ShadowKnight1224]

I would apply aiming penalties to the Firearms roll for run-n-gunnin', but other than that, it does work like that, now that 2e allows you to both move AND make an attack.

[Elfive]

Is there anything preventing the armed attacker from moving away and shooting from range each attack? (assuming they are not grappled)

I don't think so, but the odds of getting grappled in that scenario is fairly high if your opponent gets wise to your tactic.

[nofather]

Plus depending where you are and how good a shot you are, you might run out of room. It's one thing to shoot someone in an alley, it's another to have a running gunfight for two blocks.

I suppose ammo is a consideration as well.

[WHW]

I personally assume that if your opponent is capable of reaching you in a single move action (but not a charge or sacrifice-action-for-a-move double move), he is still capable of getting the defense. After all, opponent's don't freeze during your turn, it all "happens almost at once" and so on.

Consider that Firearms/ranged attacks with sufficient velocity effectively set the target's Defense to 0, regardless of its normal value. Then the bonus is being added afterward to bump it up to whatever is necessary. Or just consider the Defense being set to (Gun's Size) +1 instead of 0. Either way, the effect is the same. If you want to go further, you could make up a Merit for someone especially skilled at avoiding firearms attacks at close range.

If Firearms effectively set your Defense to 0 and other modifiers can, well, modify it, could you spend Willpower to increase your Defence from 0 to 2 and then Dodge for 4 dice?
...I'm probably going to rule that "yes, yes you can" either way, but if this is intended and possible, I kinda like it.

[Charlaquin]

I personally assume that if your opponent is capable of reaching you in a single move action (but not a charge or sacrifice-action-for-a-move double move), he is still capable of getting the defense. After all, opponent's don't freeze during your turn, it all "happens almost at once" and so on.

That seems like a pretty reasonable call. Incentivizes firearms users to double-move to get some distance between themselves and their targets, which I like.

If Firearms effectively set your Defense to 0 and other modifiers can, well, modify it, could you spend Willpower to increase your Defence from 0 to 2 and then Dodge for 4 dice?
...I'm probably going to rule that "yes, yes you can" either way, but if this is intended and possible, I kinda like it.

That would seem to be the logical conclusion.

[nofather]

Nevermind.

[Griautis]

It would be rather useless if a firearms user could simple move out of the melee range with a movement and still shoot, so how i run it is:
If a firearms user is moving away, ask the melee user if he intends to keep up with him. If yes - defense applies, and he's bound to use his move action to follow the shooter.

[Claire Redfield]

If Firearms effectively set your Defense to 0 and other modifiers can, well, modify it, could you spend Willpower to increase your Defence from 0 to 2 and then Dodge for 4 dice?
...I'm probably going to rule that "yes, yes you can" either way, but if this is intended and possible, I kinda like it.

It's sort of a judgment call each group and Storyteller will have to make for themselves, but I'd allow that, yes. You're basically putting all of your effort into juking, diving for cover or trying to move out of the way of the shooter's aim. It might not work, but it's worth a shot. No pun intended. Note that you can't even DOOOOOOOODGE! unless you spend the Willpower in the first place, so you really have a limited amount of time you can do this, anyway.

[WHW]

It's sort of a judgment call each group and Storyteller will have to make for themselves, but I'd allow that, yes. You're basically putting all of your effort into juking, diving for cover or trying to move out of the way of the shooter's aim. It might not work, but it's worth a shot. No pun intended. Note that you can't even DOOOOOOOODGE! unless you spend the Willpower in the first place, so you really have a limited amount of time you can do this, anyway.

This is exactly why I feel it's ok. You can't pull it off all the time, and most of opponent's can do it once per scene, if at all; it feel appropiate for the genre. Due to firearms having (well, until Hurt Locker) relatively small attack pools (sidearms, at least; military weapons can just ratatatatat for bonus dice), I feel that 4 dodge pool vs typical non-player Firearms pools is balanced for both sides.

[Claire Redfield]

I agree. But we're all about options here. Thus, the changes in Hurt Locker; those may not see use in later books, but there's enough information for individuals to use them forevermore if they desire!

[One Tin Soldier]

I actually have a related question. Is it possible to use Dodge against Firearms, particularly at range when you wouldn't normally get Defense? I've ruled in the past that you can, to represent dodging and weaving to try and throw off their aim, but I couldn't find definite rules either way.

[WHW]

By strict reading, you can only Dodge when Defense applies, and Defense doesn't apply against Firearms other than in certain situations. So, no.
This is why it was important to me to make difference between "Defense doesn't apply at all vs Firearms" versus "Firearms set Defense to 0, which can be modified by other things like Willpower", because it changes the answer to your question.

[nofather]

It's worth noting that you can 'go prone' before your turn if someone whips a gun out and starts firing. It gives them a -2 to hit you and takes up your subsequent turn but it is a method of defense.

[WHW]

First dot of CQC Style allows you to flat out run for the Cover instead of dropping prone as reaction.
It's one of best first dots.

[nofather]

First dot of CQC Style allows you to flat out run for the Cover instead of dropping prone as reaction.
It's one of best first dots.

Totally. I haven't had a character with fighting styles in years but that's a solid first.