Ever getting a Hero?

[ShadowKnight1224]

What exactly would this new hypothetical splat heroically defend or advocate?

I already threw in an idea here that is not unambiguous and does not actually eliminate mystery or darkness.

Something crucial people seem to be missing (or ignoring) is that the one thing that solves both sides of the issue is a splat that specifically tasks the character with doing good, but leaves it up to them to determine what is good.

That is the key difference between this theoretical splat and all others. All other splats have other concerns first. Can they do good? Absolutely. However, doing good is not actually the main, core theme of the any of the current splats. Even Hunter is more about "what are you going to do about the supernatural?" over "what do you think is good?" (obligatory disclaimer: Hunter is great, I love Hunter, I don't want it to change, etc.). Geist is "what are you going to do with your second chance?", Changeling is "how are you going to find your way back home?", and so on. While all those games have absolutely every potential for heroism and altruism, there isn't a major splat where such a thing is the core foundation upon which everything else is built. There isn't a splat that asks you to craft your own version of good and then asks you to try and uphold it, throwing you challenges and difficult choices, bittersweet-gray outcomes, and all that interesting stuff.

[BigDamnHero]

I already threw in an idea here that is not unambiguous and does not actually eliminate mystery or darkness.

Something crucial people seem to be missing (or ignoring) is that the one thing that solves both sides of the issue is a splat that specifically tasks the character with doing good, but leaves it up to them to determine what is good.

That is the key difference between this theoretical splat and all others. All other splats have other concerns first. Can they do good? Absolutely. However, doing good is not actually the main, core theme of the any of the current splats. Even Hunter is more about "what are you going to do about the supernatural?" over "what do you think is good?" (obligatory disclaimer: Hunter is great, I love Hunter, I don't want it to change, etc.). Geist is "what are you going to do with your second chance?", Changeling is "how are you going to find your way back home?", and so on. While all those games have absolutely every potential for heroism and altruism, there isn't a major splat where such a thing is the core foundation upon which everything else is built. There isn't a splat that asks you to craft your own version of good and then asks you to try and uphold it, throwing you challenges and difficult choices, bittersweet-gray outcomes, and all that interesting stuff.

So the point of the game is that your character literally gets called upon to nebulously "Do good" and some powers and that's it? That's the core of the hypothetical splat?

[Charlaquin]

I already threw in an idea here that is not unambiguous and does not actually eliminate mystery or darkness.

Something crucial people seem to be missing (or ignoring) is that the one thing that solves both sides of the issue is a splat that specifically tasks the character with doing good, but leaves it up to them to determine what is good.

That is the key difference between this theoretical splat and all others. All other splats have other concerns first. Can they do good? Absolutely. However, doing good is not actually the main, core theme of the any of the current splats. Even Hunter is more about "what are you going to do about the supernatural?" over "what do you think is good?" (obligatory disclaimer: Hunter is great, I love Hunter, I don't want it to change, etc.). Geist is "what are you going to do with your second chance?", Changeling is "how are you going to find your way back home?", and so on. While all those games have absolutely every potential for heroism and altruism, there isn't a major splat where such a thing is the core foundation upon which everything else is built. There isn't a splat that asks you to craft your own version of good and then asks you to try and uphold it, throwing you challenges and difficult choices, bittersweet-gray outcomes, and all that interesting stuff.

There sure isn't. If you want there to be, your options are pretty much to hack an existing splat, make your own fan splat, or keep your fingers crossed that an official one will be made some day.

[ShadowKnight1224]

So the point of the game is that your character literally gets called upon to nebulously "Do good" and some powers and that's it? That's the core of the hypothetical splat?

Nobody looks good under a reductionist reading. I could say Vampire is merely a game where you're an undead bloodsucker "and that's it", and I would be doing the game and its developers quite the disservice.

[branford]

So the point of the game is that your character literally gets called upon to nebulously "Do good" and some powers and that's it? That's the core of the hypothetical splat?

It's been a while, but doesn't that in many ways seem a like a CofD version of Hunter: the Reckoning, where many of the now requested themes and setting elements were intentionally discarded and rejected in favor of Hunter: the Vigil?

[ShadowKnight1224]

There sure isn't. If you want there to be, your options are pretty much to hack an existing splat, make your own fan splat, or keep your fingers crossed that an official one will be made some day.

I think there is value in gathering interest for any of those ideas. If people want to work on a community hack or fan splat, I think it'd be a lovely occurrence.

Edit branford : that's the third time you bring up the notion that Reckoning themes were rejected. I fail to see the value in asserting that. Is it some sort of implied value judgment?

[Charlaquin]

I think there is value in gathering interest for any of those ideas. If people want to work on a community back or fan splat, I think it'd be a lovely occurrence.

If that's what you want, I think "I have an idea for a heroic fan splat, who would find this interesting or want to help contribute?" would lead to a lot more productive discussion and a lot less pointless bickering than "Are we ever going to get a heroic splat?" The former invites people to share constructive ideas and feedback, while the latter invites defenses of why heroism is possible with the splats we already have and arguments over what heroism actually means and if it should even be defined.

[BigDamnHero]

Nobody looks good under a reductionist reading. I could say Vampire is merely a game where you're an undead bloodsucker "and that's it", and I would be doing the game and its developers quite the disservice.

Sorry. Believe it or not, that wasn't a derisive "is that it?" I'm trying to get to the bottom of what it is people want out of the splat. Because vampire can very well be "Suck blood" as the core concept that the rest of the game is based around, at least on a superficial level.

My question is more about what gives the characters of "Good: the Doing" the push to do good? I would hope not some sort of entity.

[ElvesofZion]

I think there is value in gathering interest for any of those ideas. If people want to work on a community hack or fan splat, I think it'd be a lovely occurrence.

Edit branford : that's the third time you bring up the notion that Reckoning themes were rejected. I fail to see the value in asserting that. Is it some sort of implied value judgment?

I wouldn't say that they were rejected so much, but the standard stance the devs have taken on these things is that if WoD already does something, Chrod won't be doing it too. They might do things that have certain similarites but they wont do the same things. So the closer to Reckoning you get, the less likley that Chrod will ever have it.

[ReshyShira]

Sorry. Believe it or not, that wasn't a derisive "is that it?" I'm trying to get to the bottom of what it is people want out of the splat. Because vampire can very well be "Suck blood" as the core concept that the rest of the game is based around, at least on a superficial level.

My question is more about what gives the characters of "Good: the Doing" the push to do good? I would hope not some sort of entity.

How about exploring our own conventional virtues, when they're right and where they're wrong. Heck, when is altruism wrong?

[branford]

Edit branford : that's the third time you bring up the notion that Reckoning themes were rejected. I fail to see the value in asserting that. Is it some sort of implied value judgment?

The original OP questioned why there wasn't an "official" heroic splat and the discussion of the appropriateness of such a splat ensued.

I reference H:tR because it in many ways satisfies the pertinent criteria of what some people claim to want or believe should be available as a splat (I believe you earlier indicated you hacked it to create "Paladins" in your chronicles), yet we know for a fact that OP considered this and choose to reject it in the CofD. Since this consideration actually produced H:tV, which is now being developed for a second edition, it also highlights the fact that such a splat would likely be redundant or inconsistent with the default setting, themes, and design goals of the CofD, no matter the individual preferences of some fans.

The apparent "value judgment" appears to have been made by the people who created the nWOD/CofD and its accompanying game lines, not me.

[PenDragon]

I'm a little late to this conversation, but isn't Princess: The Hopeful exactly the game you're looking for?

Characters are explicitly aiming to be heroic. Major focus on improving the lives of friends and strangers. Powers capable of dealing with big scary dark monsters on equal footing. I know it's a fan game, but it's probably as close as CofD will ever come to a "good guy" splat.

[ReshyShira]

I'm a little late to this conversation, but isn't Princess: The Hopeful exactly the game you're looking for?

Characters are explicitly aiming to be heroic. Major focus on improving the lives of friends and strangers. Powers capable of dealing with big scary dark monsters on equal footing. I know it's a fan game, but it's probably as close as CofD will ever come to a "good guy" splat.

Think that the question is more "why hasn't OPP done something similar yet?" also the OP was probably unaware of it when originally posting, and he may not like the magic girl themes.

[BigDamnHero]

How about exploring our own conventional virtues, when they're right and where they're wrong. Heck, when is altruism wrong?

So then the game doesn't try to define what "good" is, that's fine. But then what? It's just a bunch of people given power? And then no directions? Or are the directions supposed to be explicit for the players?

[branford]

Think that the question is more "why hasn't OPP done something similar yet?"

Indeed. It is my understanding that the the OP and his group are insisting on an "official" heroic splat.