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  • So what happens to all those first edition supplements?

    Do they just not count? What's the deal, here? Is this basically WoD 3.0?

  • #2
    It's the same setting, for the most part? Requiem 2e's corebook references the M from Ventrue: Lords Over the Damned, Solace from Mythologies, and the Akhud from VII, and explicitly suggests Damnation City and the five clanbooks as useful supplements. Mage 2e calls out the Nemean, blood bathers, and the Men in Black from Summoners, and its descriptions of the astral realms, the Mad and the Tremere liches read like point-for-point summary breakdowns of their fuller writeups and mechanics in Astral Realms and Left-Hand Path. A lot of flavor material can pretty much be used exactly as is.

    Are you going to be able to use first edition mechanical content for second edition games? Well, yes and no. The base framework of the system is the same, so there's a lot of stuff that can be used as is, or that is maybe not finely tuned for balance but is feasible and doesn't break. There's a lot that requires minor tweaks, like experience costs, or weapon ratings that have to be adjusted for the 2e damage-not-dice model (basic rule of thumb, reduce weapon die bonus by 1 and use as damage rating, roughly). And, yes, there's a significant amount of stuff that breaks and needs a near total rewrite to use, like Mage spells not built to assume 2e's system of Reach and spellcasting factors, and vampiric elements that relate to the Predator's Taint.

    Edition rollovers aren't uncommon in the hobby, and I'd be lying if I told you selling people new books wasn't part of the idea. Not the whole, but part of it. Old material is probably harder to port into the new edition than, say, porting material between two editions of an oWoD gameline. Easier than porting material between two of the last three editions of D&D, though. Possibly easier than between Exalted 2e and 3e. Certainly not so hard that I've dismissed out of hand looking at 1e material for Merits or character options when building a 2e character. Enough, though, that if you do so, you definitely want to talk to your ST about it, if only to get the OK.

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    • #3
      Pretty much what SL says. There are a few changes that the new editions make, both implicitly and explicitly, but for a LOT of story material there are no real barriers to porting stuff over. It's all in that hazy area of "ask your ST", which honestly makes sense because all the material for the nWoD1e games were meant as tools in the toolbox -anyways-.


      Mage the Awakening 2e Communal Homebrew Threads:
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      • #4
        Also no, it's not WoD 3.0. WoD is a completely different game, which has itself had 4 editions, and is working on a 5th.


        Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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        • #5
          If you look at the Errata and "Hacks" that were published for 1st edition in the decade before the company split up for a while (leading to the "Chronicles" rename), alot of the rules in GMC aren't so much "new" as much as "unified". Granted, yes, the major gamelines had a huge overhaul, making old books' descriptions of the powers that actual creatures like Werewolves and Wolf Blooded have outdated, but other than that, if you understand the new rules and how both sets work, it's easy to figure out how to make old Merits and Items work in the new edition, because alot of those rules didn't change, just the way some of the math is applied higher up and how things like Investigation and Socialization work...


          Dragon Rekindled: The Oroboroi Chronicles.
          The official reboot of Dragon: The Embers.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post
            It's the same setting, for the most part? Requiem 2e's corebook references the M from Ventrue: Lords Over the Damned, Solace from Mythologies, and the Akhud from VII, and explicitly suggests Damnation City and the five clanbooks as useful supplements. Mage 2e calls out the Nemean, blood bathers, and the Men in Black from Summoners, and its descriptions of the astral realms, the Mad and the Tremere liches read like point-for-point summary breakdowns of their fuller writeups and mechanics in Astral Realms and Left-Hand Path. A lot of flavor material can pretty much be used exactly as is.

            Are you going to be able to use first edition mechanical content for second edition games? Well, yes and no. The base framework of the system is the same, so there's a lot of stuff that can be used as is, or that is maybe not finely tuned for balance but is feasible and doesn't break. There's a lot that requires minor tweaks, like experience costs, or weapon ratings that have to be adjusted for the 2e damage-not-dice model (basic rule of thumb, reduce weapon die bonus by 1 and use as damage rating, roughly). And, yes, there's a significant amount of stuff that breaks and needs a near total rewrite to use, like Mage spells not built to assume 2e's system of Reach and spellcasting factors, and vampiric elements that relate to the Predator's Taint.

            Edition rollovers aren't uncommon in the hobby, and I'd be lying if I told you selling people new books wasn't part of the idea. Not the whole, but part of it. Old material is probably harder to port into the new edition than, say, porting material between two editions of an oWoD gameline. Easier than porting material between two of the last three editions of D&D, though. Possibly easier than between Exalted 2e and 3e. Certainly not so hard that I've dismissed out of hand looking at 1e material for Merits or character options when building a 2e character. Enough, though, that if you do so, you definitely want to talk to your ST about it, if only to get the OK.
            Okay that makes perfect sense man. I'll use judgment in my games and shit.
            Originally posted by Charlaquin
            Also no, it's not WoD 3.0. WoD is a completely different game, which has itself had 4 editions, and is working on a 5th.
            Yeah, it's a "completely different game" with identically named splats that have identically named classes (Clans, Paths, Auspices, etc) and identically named organizations (Covenants, Orders, Tribes, etc) that have the same narrative themes, the same names for abilities, and reference same optional supplements. But completely different. They're not even comparable. At all. How foolish I was to be confused about this matter. Are they even the same genre? I'm amazed at how unrecognizably different "Vampire: the Requiem" is to this "completely different game" called "Vampire: the Requiem."
            Last edited by TheStranjer; 07-02-2016, 05:10 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TheStranjer View Post
              Okay that makes perfect sense man.
              Yeah, it's a "completely different game" with identically named splats that have identically named classes (Clans, Paths, Auspices, etc) and identically named organizations (Covenants, Orders, Tribes, etc) that have the same narrative themes, the same names for abilities, and reference same optional supplements. But completely different.[/FONT]
              Charlaquin's talking about the name rebranding, where the oWoD is now once again simply titled the World of Darkness, while the nWoD is now branded as the Chronicles of Darkness. Ostensibly the rebranding extends to older releases too, though this is heavily confused by how, since replacing all the covers is extensive work for little yield, all the old Chronicles of Darkness books are still sold with a big prominent stripe on the cover that says "World of Darkness."

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              • #8
                Your Avatar looks familiar, TheStranjer, did you change your name?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post

                  Charlaquin's talking about the name rebranding, where the oWoD is now once again simply titled the World of Darkness, while the nWoD is now branded as the Chronicles of Darkness. Ostensibly the rebranding extends to older releases too, though this is heavily confused by how, since replacing all the covers is extensive work for little yield, all the old Chronicles of Darkness books are still sold with a big prominent stripe on the cover that says "World of Darkness."
                  Yeah I'm aware of what she's talking about, to a degree. It's definitely questionable what "counts" now and what doesn't, and that would be really great of them to clarify, but this idea that they're "completely different games" is comically incorrect. It's not even something that can be debated, since I checked and noticed that they use the same supplements. "Completely different games" don't use the same supplements. Just no.

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                  • #10
                    TheStranjer What she's saying is that Vampire: the Masquerade is a World of Darkness game, which is completely different from Vampire: The Requiem, which is a Chronicles of Darkness game (yes, even the version of it published in 2004 is a Chronicles of Darkness game). While, yes, among fans nWoD and oWoD will still be the terms of the day, you can't blame someone who volunteers to keep the company's forums in order from trying to 'set the record straight'. Chronicles of Darkness is a second edition and a rename, not a reboot (like the change from oWoD to nWoD). As with most roleplaying games, you can use things from the previous editions, you just need to jury rig them for compatibility, same as you would for Shadowrun or even something from Masquerade 1e and Revised.

                    Also, you've really got to put aside that annoying habit of posting on /tg/ to complain about the moderators.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aspel View Post
                      TheStranjer What she's saying is that Vampire: the Masquerade is a World of Darkness game, which is completely different from Vampire: The Requiem, which is a Chronicles of Darkness game (yes, even the version of it published in 2004 is a Chronicles of Darkness game). While, yes, among fans nWoD and oWoD will still be the terms of the day, you can't blame someone who volunteers to keep the company's forums in order from trying to 'set the record straight'. Chronicles of Darkness is a second edition and a rename, not a reboot (like the change from oWoD to nWoD). As with most roleplaying games, you can use things from the previous editions, you just need to jury rig them for compatibility, same as you would for Shadowrun or even something from Masquerade 1e and Revised.

                      Also, you've really got to put aside that annoying habit of posting on /tg/ to complain about the moderators.
                      Sorry m8, you can't rename your shit more than a decade after it's been published. I reject this idea for the retardation it is.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheStranjer View Post
                        Yeah I'm aware of what she's talking about, to a degree. It's definitely questionable what "counts" now and what doesn't, and that would be really great of them to clarify, but this idea that they're "completely different games" is comically incorrect. It's not even something that can be debated, since I checked and noticed that they use the same supplements. "Completely different games" don't use the same supplements. Just no.
                        No, 1st edition Chronicles of Darkness (formerly called "New" World of Darkness) is a different edition of the same game as Chronicles of Darkness 2nd edition. It is a completely different game than World of Darkness (formerly called Classic World of Darkness), which is still actively supported and has 4 editions of its own with a 5th in the works.

                        Since there have only been 2 editions of New World ofChronicles of Darkness, I assumed that when you said "WoD 3.0" you were counting the entirety of Classic World of Darkness as "WoD 1.0", with Chronocles of Darkness 1e being "WoD 2.0" and Chronicles of Darkness 2e being "WoD 3.0", which I felt was worth correcting because World of Darkness (the one featuring Vampire: the Masquerade) is a completely different game than Chronicles of Darkness (the one featuring Vampire: the Requiem), and each have been through edition changes, the former more than the latter.


                        Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post

                          No, 1st edition Chronicles of Darkness (formerly called "New" World of Darkness) is a different edition of the same game as Chronicles of Darkness 2nd edition. It is a completely different game than World of Darkness (formerly called Classic World of Darkness), which is still actively supported and has 4 editions of its own with a 5th in the works.

                          Since there have only been 2 editions of New World ofChronicles of Darkness, I assumed that when you said "WoD 3.0" you were counting the entirety of Classic World of Darkness as "WoD 1.0", with Chronocles of Darkness 1e being "WoD 2.0" and Chronicles of Darkness 2e being "WoD 3.0", which I felt was worth correcting because World of Darkness (the one featuring Vampire: the Masquerade) is a completely different game than Chronicles of Darkness (the one featuring Vampire: the Requiem), and each have been through edition changes, the former more than the latter.
                          Setting aside the banter, I hope you realize that this is terrible marketing and will only lead to more confusion.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nofather View Post
                            Your Avatar looks familiar, TheStranjer, did you change your name?
                            It's almost identical to Macai's Avatar. They're both from Doom, I believe.


                            Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheStranjer View Post
                              Okay that makes perfect sense man. I'll use judgment in my games and shit.
                              Yeah, it's a "completely different game" with identically named splats that have identically named classes (Clans, Paths, Auspices, etc) and identically named organizations (Covenants, Orders, Tribes, etc) that have the same narrative themes, the same names for abilities, and reference same optional supplements. But completely different. They're not even comparable. At all. How foolish I was to be confused about this matter. Are they even the same genre? I'm amazed at how unrecognizably different "Vampire: the Requiem" is to this "completely different game" called "Vampire: the Requiem."
                              Ok. There's WoD, which used to be called oWoD.
                              That's one game, which is the ancestor of CofD, which used to be called nWoD.
                              The nWoD supplements are still applicable. Sure, the mechanics are no longer entirely valid, but a lot of the info

                              But to answer the questions posed here: Yes, they are the same genre, they are basically the same game, just a new edition. I honestly can't believe how you find VtR 1e and VtR 2e unrecognisably different.

                              And finally, it's not "WoD 3.0", it's nWoD 2.0.

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