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New book: The Crossover Chronicle

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by StSword View Post
    Are psychic powers abilities innate human potential, the result of genetic mutation, the result of scientific enhancement, or the gift of angelic or other such entities? The book give all of them as options, which one(s) are canon?
    I see no reason why "all of the above, and more besides" isn't a valid answer.

    Originally posted by StSword View Post
    Is thaumaturge the result of certain rituals just having innate power, the result of human belief, blessings by angels/spirits/other such entities, all of the above, or the result of partial awakenings into pseudo-mages? The book gives all of them as options, which one(s) are canon?
    I'd say "all of the above" or even "there is no actual distinction".

    Originally posted by StSword View Post
    In second edition in which psychic powers (and presumably one day thaumaturge) are supernatural merits, which of the above ways to gain them are canon options and which aren't?
    All of them? Learn occult ritual? Supernatural Merit! Rare genetic quirk? Supernatural Merit! Scientific augmentation? Supernatural Merit (see Lost Boys in Hurt Locker preview)! Gift of other being? Well, Demons can inflict Stigmata, and I doubt Spirits and many other such powers can't do the same, so Supernatural Merit!

    None of these options invalidate the others. They just mean there is more than one way to telekinetically skin a cat.

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  • StSword
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post
    Typo aside, there is most certainly a default canon setting in the CofD. You may choose to include or exclude whatever you wish, and most us change something in our own games, but there is indeed a defined and intended setting. Moreover, most of Mirrors, including Woundgate was explicitly alternative setting material. That was the whole point of the book. Using to prove or disprove anything about the CofD is unproductive.
    Okay, let's play then.

    Let's take Second Sight.

    Are psychic powers abilities innate human potential, the result of genetic mutation, the result of scientific enhancement, or the gift of angelic or other such entities? The book give all of them as options, which one(s) are canon?

    Is thaumaturge the result of certain rituals just having innate power, the result of human belief, blessings by angels/spirits/other such entities, all of the above, or the result of partial awakenings into pseudo-mages? The book gives all of them as options, which one(s) are canon?

    In second edition in which psychic powers (and presumably one day thaumaturge) are supernatural merits, which of the above ways to gain them are canon options and which aren't?
    Last edited by StSword; 09-12-2016, 05:05 AM.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Joker View Post
    Seeing as the developers made sure that there are incomatible elements between the different splat's cosmologies on purpose I'd say there is less a "defined and intended setting". More like a continuum of intended yet sometime mutually exclusive setting elements, parts of which you can combine to form a full setting without big internal inconsistencies and which fits OPP's vision of how the CofD looks and feels like.
    Please describe some of these incompatible elements.

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by Joker View Post
    Seeing as the developers made sure that there are incomatible elements between the different splat's cosmologies on purpose I'd say there is less a "defined and intended setting". More like a continuum of intended yet sometime mutually exclusive setting elements, parts of which you can combine to form a full setting without big internal inconsistencies and which fits OPP's vision of how the CofD looks and feels like.

    Purportedly inconsistent cosmologies among certain splats does not change the fact that there's an intended setting in the CofD. In fact, these alleged inconsistencies are part and parcel of the setting and intended to convey the mystery and horror of the game world (and permit new material to be added over time). Moreover, the cosmologies are largely about myth, history and purpose, that may inform and motivate characters, but they still exist withing the same defined setting. For instance, the contemporary setting remains the same regardless of whether a character believes in the Dark Mother, Atlantis or the God Machine. I agree that OPP intentionally made it easy to remove or change parts of the setting to suit players needs and preferences, particularly, in 2e, such as whether to include the God Machine in a particular chronicle, but the ability to add or excise setting elements has nothing to do with whether there is a intended and defined setting, rather it's evidence of good rpg game design.

    In any event, Woundgate still was explicitly presented as an alternative setting in a book expressly about alternative material. While some may like Woundgate, including myself, it offers little guidance or meaning about the "default" CofD, regardless of whether one considers the CofD as a single defined setting or a set toolbox consisting of individual gameline settings designed to be compatible.

    These issues, however, do demonstrate how difficult a true crossover chronicle book (or gameline) will be to produce without aggravating many fans, rewriting large setting elements, or requiring the word count of a large encyclopedia set.

    While I'm very anxious to see the final product, and will almost certainly buy the first book, I do not envy the developer and writers on this project.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joker
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post


    Typo aside, there is most certainly a default canon setting in the CofD. You may choose to include or exclude whatever you wish, and most us change something in our own games, but there is indeed a defined and intended setting.
    Seeing as the developers made sure that there are incomatible elements between the different splat's cosmologies on purpose I'd say there is less a "defined and intended setting". More like a continuum of intended yet sometime mutually exclusive setting elements, parts of which you can combine to form a full setting without big internal inconsistencies and which fits OPP's vision of how the CofD looks and feels like.

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by StSword View Post

    I'm sure Woundgate has plenty of cannons, actually.

    Also, there's no such thing as canon in CofD. One uses what they like and discards the rest.

    Typo aside, there is most certainly a default canon setting in the CofD. You may choose to include or exclude whatever you wish, and most us change something in our own games, but there is indeed a defined and intended setting. Moreover, most of Mirrors, including Woundgate was explicitly alternative setting material. That was the whole point of the book. Using to prove or disprove anything about the CofD is unproductive.

    Leave a comment:


  • StSword
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post
    Woundgate is an alternative setting, no cannon CofD.
    I'm sure Woundgate has plenty of cannons, actually.

    Also, there's no such thing as canon in CofD. One uses what they like and discards the rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Haberdasher
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post


    DaveB commented about the issue on 4chan.


    I recall a piece from Vampire about a vampire who has a night guard as a Touchstone. The night guard all but said that she knew what the vampire was, and had once had misgivings, but is willing to let the vampire be as long as her or she only preys on people who are a threat to the innocent people of the neighborhood- all through an extended metaphor about coyotes.

    One of the big things with CofD is that most people have had some sort of brush with the supernatural. Maybe not enough to blow the lid off of the whole thing, but enough to make people stay away from dark allies, the whole "there but for the grace of God" shtick. But nobody is willing to talk about it, because to do so is to draw people's attention to the Things that Go Bump, and nobody wants to think about how vulnerable they are. So off to the loony house with anybody who mentions that time they saw somebody drinking blood from another person's neck.
    Last edited by Haberdasher; 09-11-2016, 12:20 AM.

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  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    Knowing about the supernatural and knowing about Task Force Valkyrie are two separate things. Everyone knows about the supernatural, the vast majority of people don't know about the extent of it, with multiple alternate worlds and entire nations of people that aren't people.

    All that said, there's no reason to believe the mage from Premeditation is accurate. Mages are capable of being wrong and believing in conspiracy theories as easy as Sleepers. People know about the supernatural, and people make up the government, that does not mean that the governments of the world are more fully aware of things than the average human.

    That said, the president is an elected official who may be in and out of the government in 4 or 8 years, or even less. Sharing all the secrets of the world with someone who will effectively be out of the government in that time may not be something they do.

    DaveB commented about the issue on 4chan.

    Anonymous Sat 23 Apr 2016 08:14:00 No.46853478 Report
    Quoted By: >>46853527 >>46853659
    Has anyone read DaveB's story "Premeditation" from the Beast Fiction Anthology?

    Among other things, I was amused by one interesting bit on p. 140, where Hal, the smug and knowledgeable mage, confidently states that every government knows about the supernatural, and some even kidnap or disappear certain members.

    Was this a Hunter reference, some new canon part of the setting in 2e, or was Dave just fucking around?
    DaveB !!kn3vuELOelB Sat 23 Apr 2016 08:37:33 No.46853659 ViewReport
    >>46853478

    A little of column A and a little of column B.

    Morocco really does have secret prisons, and the government disappears people - in the 90s, it was anyone who the King thought was a risk to him, while nowadays, it does so with the support of the US, who use them for kidnapping people under the War on Terror.

    Najat's dad was the kind of person to get vanished even without being a shapeshifter.

    But yes, I assume everyone in the CofD setting knows about the supernatural, but only a few want to think about it and even fewer do something about it. TFV probably has equivalents all over the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • nofather
    replied
    Knowing about the supernatural and knowing about Task Force Valkyrie are two separate things. Everyone knows about the supernatural, the vast majority of people don't know about the extent of it, with multiple alternate worlds and entire nations of people that aren't people.

    All that said, there's no reason to believe the mage from Premeditation is accurate. Mages are capable of being wrong and believing in conspiracy theories as easy as Sleepers. People know about the supernatural, and people make up the government, that does not mean that the governments of the world are more fully aware of things than the average human.

    That said, the president is an elected official who may be in and out of the government in 4 or 8 years, or even less. Sharing all the secrets of the world with someone who will effectively be out of the government in that time may not be something they do.

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by StSword View Post
    Maybe, but there's an adventure which makes it clear that both the Vice President and President know about the supernatural.

    In the woundgate setting, it's mentioned that the US government is aware of the Occult states of america, and that all national governments are aware of the shatterlands.

    Woundgate is an alternative setting, no cannon CofD.

    I was under the impression that limited elements of various governments know that the supernatural exists and can be quite threatening. The vast majority of the governments' bureaucracy doesn't know about the supernatural (any more than everyone in the CofD has some vague sense about it), and what they do know is often incomplete, piecemeal or even wrong.

    It's also possible that some of the people in the know in government are supernatural themselves or servants of supernaturals. Why strike directly at your enemies when the taxpayers and ignorant government drones will do it for you (e.g., Division 6)?
    Last edited by branford; 09-10-2016, 01:37 PM.

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  • Prometheus
    replied
    I guess it depends on which president the books talked about. Also isn't the woundgate non-canon as a part of Mirrors?

    Leave a comment:


  • StSword
    replied
    Maybe, but there's an adventure which makes it clear that both the Vice President and President know about the supernatural.

    In the woundgate setting, it's mentioned that the US government is aware of the Occult states of america, and that all national governments are aware of the shatterlands.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geckopirateship
    replied
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't HtV says that the president doesn't even know what TFV does?

    Leave a comment:


  • dourden
    replied
    Thank you nofather for your comments. You helped me a lot, really

    Leave a comment:

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