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New book: The Crossover Chronicle

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  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by BigDamnHero View Post

    I mean, TASKFORCE VALKYRIE and other Conspiracies should have been proof that knowledge of the supernatural exists at high organizational levels.
    Well, at least some part of the organization knows. TF:V existing doesn't necessarily mean everyone is briefed on them, though.

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  • BigDamnHero
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post


    Indeed. Although it really felt more like a setting update than something that was always the case.
    I mean, TASKFORCE VALKYRIE and other Conspiracies should have been proof that knowledge of the supernatural exists at high organizational levels.

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  • nofather
    replied
    'Every government knows monsters exist.' Which is in line with the Chronicles of Darkness. It's not as if Task Force Valkyrie isn't a thing.

    But lets also keep in mind this doesn't mean once you get a government job you're sent copies of Vampire the Requiem Second Edition.

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  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by Prometheus View Post
    I believe that the governments being aware of supernatural was stated in Dave's Premeditation story in the Beast Anthology.

    Indeed. Although it really felt more like a setting update than something that was always the case.
    Last edited by branford; 09-08-2016, 03:34 PM.

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  • Prometheus
    replied
    I believe that the governments being aware of supernatural was stated in Dave's Premeditation story in the Beast Anthology.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by dourden View Post
    I have been thinking about this theme, supernaturals and normal humans.

    The point is that, although the books always pay attention in that humans are dangerous because its numbers, and must not be underestimated, then after reading about all the factions there that manipulate humankind and deal with humans and are obsessive about control (Invictus, Carthian movement, Masters of Iron, Silver Ladder, Seers of the Throne...) with all their mind control powers and infiltration powers (obfuscate discipline, mage veiling practice...), as a reader I begin to see vampires, werewolves, mages, fae... everywhere, and ruling the world through their puppets.
    Part of the problem is you seem to be taking 'control' as in humans as some sort of slave who kneels before an enthroned supernatural. It can be as subtle as someone just being rich and being able to donate to the right groups. It can be much more subtle than that, if it happens at all.

    For one thing if you've read about these groups you know that Seers are rare, the Silver Ladder focuses on mystery cults, the Invictus and Carthians are not global or interested in micromanaging the world, and the Iron Masters don't have any reason to work from the shadows. An Invictus Prince might have an 'in' with the mayor or governor, but they're just another one of dozens of rich and powerful people who do. The Seers aren't everywhere, but the Exarchs already rule the world, their system is in place. Silver Ladder isn't about enslaving humanity but uplifting them through the mysteries of their cults. A werewolf-run company was detailed pretty well in the Pack book, they're good at what they do and surely use supernatural abilities to help but outwardly they're just a good, fairly well known if insular company.

    That is the sensation I got. No matter how much I read that humans must be taken with care. What prevents the Major of New York, for example, being Dominated by an Invictus Ventrue, then Fascinated by a Daeva, then possessed by a spirit sent by an Ithaeur, then programmed by a Seer of the Throne and after that seduced into a pledge by a beautiful fairest changeling? Or perhaps all this splats are too busy stabbing each other to pay attention to this? It got to the point that it looked ridiculous, or funny, depending on the point of view (poor Major...).
    The fact that the mayor of New York doesn't have that much power and it's not worth the effort it would take to control him. That politics in your own group are complicated enough without worrying about the details of an actual political campaign for an elected official you could only conceivably interact with at night time. That a possessed being isn't going to be programmed or seduced into a pledge. This is the kind of thing that works great in a feudal era or time when there was a single ruler who could say all, but there's entire systems of checks and balances to ensure that a mayor doesn't control every aspect of the city. Even the leader of the free world, the president of the United States can't have the army go from house to house and confiscate your guns and silver bullets if he wanted to. He might be able to write up a law to outlaw silver bullets and private ownership of them, but that law has to pass through the houses to be put into effect, and while he can make an executive order over it, that can be overturned.

    Players may think the Major is a weakling (human = no superpowers = weakling), but is the Storyteller who decides it. He decides if that Major is a weakling, a ghoul, a sleeper, a wolf-blooded, a possessed human, if he knows about supernaturals or not, or if he is stubborn as stone and manipulative and emotionless to make a city Prince blush in shame...
    It's a given in the Chronicles that people know about the supernatural. It would be strange for someone with at least a modicum of influence and access to information about an area to not at least have a hint of what actually lives there. I believe this has been explicitly stated, with world leaders all at least knowing what's out there, but I couldn't be sure.

    It's in the fiction, though. Prince Maxwell has influence because he knows people, and he's wealthy. Solomon Birch and Norris because they've got their hooks into the right people. They don't need to dominate the mayor because that doesn't really get them anything they can't get easier and without risking the Masquerade through some other means.

    Considering books like a Thousand Years of Night portray the 'end level' supernaturals like vampires as part-conspiracy, I'd expect some more of this in books like that.
    Last edited by nofather; 09-08-2016, 01:59 PM.

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  • ROMzombie
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post
    For instance, controlling the head of the zoning board, the mayor's chief of staff or a few police precinct captains can be far easier, more efficient and productive, and far less risky than trying to control the mayor himself.
    That also creates one of my favorite situations: opposing characters in an corporate setting.

    Think The Office, but with subtle supernatural powers engaged in a cold war where no-one wants to rock the boat too much.

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  • dourden
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post

    I get the impression that people sufficiently high up in political (or other) hierarchies, such a mayors, police commissioners, generals, CEO's of major companies, etc., are not generally controlled or directly influenced by the supernatural factions because they are too high profile and any problems could backfire spectacularly. When seeking to control governments and other entities, supernaturals target key advisers, middle managers and other who actually implement policy on a practical level or themselves have significant influence over the primary decision-makers.

    For instance, controlling the head of the zoning board, the mayor's chief of staff or a few police precinct captains can be far easier, more efficient and productive, and far less risky than trying to control the mayor himself.
    Good point of view. Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • branford
    replied
    Originally posted by dourden View Post

    I have been thinking about this theme, supernaturals and normal humans.

    The point is that, although the books always pay attention in that humans are dangerous because its numbers, and must not be underestimated, then after reading about all the factions there that manipulate humankind and deal with humans and are obsessive about control (Invictus, Carthian movement, Masters of Iron, Silver Ladder, Seers of the Throne...) with all their mind control powers and infiltration powers (obfuscate discipline, mage veiling practice...), as a reader I begin to see vampires, werewolves, mages, fae... everywhere, and ruling the world through their puppets.

    For me it has been a breaking point and I rolled an integrity check not to take the Paranoid Condition.



    That is the sensation I got. No matter how much I read that humans must be taken with care. What prevents the Major of New York, for example, being Dominated by an Invictus Ventrue, then Fascinated by a Daeva, then possessed by a spirit sent by an Ithaeur, then programmed by a Seer of the Throne and after that seduced into a pledge by a beautiful fairest changeling? Or perhaps all this splats are too busy stabbing each other to pay attention to this? It got to the point that it looked ridiculous, or funny, depending on the point of view (poor Major...).

    So I have been thinking of this, and I remembered the essential: that the one who decides this is the Storyteller. And some Storytellers (like me, a CoD novice one), tend to forget this.

    Players may think the Major is a weakling (human = no superpowers = weakling), but is the Storyteller who decides it. He decides if that Major is a weakling, a ghoul, a sleeper, a wolf-blooded, a possessed human, if he knows about supernaturals or not, or if he is stubborn as stone and manipulative and emotionless to make a city Prince blush in shame...

    The trick, I think, is looking to the real world. Maybe humans have no "superpowers" compared to supernaturals, but they can be very, very dangerous, and do whatever is necessary to be done to achieve their objectives.

    Is good for me to allow players having fun with their "supers" beating and manipulating human scum, defeating the villain with their powers. Those are funny sessions that players and I enjoy a lot. But I also think it will be good to remember players how dark and dangerous humans can be from time to time, in adventures where the mood is "Who is the real monster?"

    Is a thing I would like see covered in the book ^^
    I get the impression that people sufficiently high up in political (or other) hierarchies, such a mayors, police commissioners, generals, CEO's of major companies, etc., are not generally controlled or directly influenced by the supernatural factions because they are too high profile and any problems could backfire spectacularly. When seeking to control governments and other entities, supernaturals target key advisers, middle managers and other who actually implement policy on a practical level or themselves have significant influence over the primary decision-makers.

    For instance, controlling the head of the zoning board, the mayor's chief of staff or a few police precinct captains can be far easier, more efficient and productive, and far less risky than trying to control the mayor himself.




    Leave a comment:


  • dourden
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    Yes, supernaturals don't have the numbers to deal with them all, and even if they did they're not organized enough to do so and the vast majority wouldn't care.
    I have been thinking about this theme, supernaturals and normal humans.

    The point is that, although the books always pay attention in that humans are dangerous because its numbers, and must not be underestimated, then after reading about all the factions there that manipulate humankind and deal with humans and are obsessive about control (Invictus, Carthian movement, Masters of Iron, Silver Ladder, Seers of the Throne...) with all their mind control powers and infiltration powers (obfuscate discipline, mage veiling practice...), as a reader I begin to see vampires, werewolves, mages, fae... everywhere, and ruling the world through their puppets.

    For me it has been a breaking point and I rolled an integrity check not to take the Paranoid Condition.

    Originally posted by branford
    In the CofD, are there really many humans left in local government that aren't controlled, possessed, magically cowed, simply replaced or far, far worse by the innumerable mages, vampires, werewolves, demons, or other supernatural groups and individuals, various and sundry?
    That is the sensation I got. No matter how much I read that humans must be taken with care. What prevents the Major of New York, for example, being Dominated by an Invictus Ventrue, then Fascinated by a Daeva, then possessed by a spirit sent by an Ithaeur, then programmed by a Seer of the Throne and after that seduced into a pledge by a beautiful fairest changeling? Or perhaps all this splats are too busy stabbing each other to pay attention to this? It got to the point that it looked ridiculous, or funny, depending on the point of view (poor Major...).

    So I have been thinking of this, and I remembered the essential: that the one who decides this is the Storyteller. And some Storytellers (like me, a CoD novice one), tend to forget this.

    Players may think the Major is a weakling (human = no superpowers = weakling), but is the Storyteller who decides it. He decides if that Major is a weakling, a ghoul, a sleeper, a wolf-blooded, a possessed human, if he knows about supernaturals or not, or if he is stubborn as stone and manipulative and emotionless to make a city Prince blush in shame...

    The trick, I think, is looking to the real world. Maybe humans have no "superpowers" compared to supernaturals, but they can be very, very dangerous, and do whatever is necessary to be done to achieve their objectives.

    Is good for me to allow players having fun with their "supers" beating and manipulating human scum, defeating the villain with their powers. Those are funny sessions that players and I enjoy a lot. But I also think it will be good to remember players how dark and dangerous humans can be from time to time, in adventures where the mood is "Who is the real monster?"

    Is a thing I would like see covered in the book ^^
    Last edited by dourden; 09-08-2016, 10:25 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vent0
    replied
    Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
    I'd certainly be interested in options for how the various fuels "relate" to one another. Like, in my headcanon, glamour can sort of be understood as dSekhem/dt, and vitae and plasm are strongly related.
    Really? I'd have thought Pyros and Sekhem would be closer, while Glamour would be nearer to Mana or Essence. And we all know Aether is a specific kind of Essence byproduct.

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  • SunlessNick
    replied
    Originally posted by dourden View Post
    Thinking about all the different types of places and fuels makes my head ache, and I am thinking of giving the world the same fuel but named different and taken on different manner depending on the splat, and not "fueling" equally everyone depending on the resonance of that fuel, each splat feeling comfortable with one place or another. It is only an idea, but since I read the concept of "resonance" I fell in love with it.

    It would be interesting to see this treated in the new book, and also the conflicts for places of power.
    I'd certainly be interested in options for how the various fuels "relate" to one another. Like, in my headcanon, glamour can sort of be understood as dSekhem/dt, and vitae and plasm are strongly related.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thorbes
    replied
    I really like what you did with all the bond-like abilities of the different splats, I may use it if I ever run a crossover.

    Leave a comment:


  • falco1029
    replied
    On another site, within the past few days, I started a Crossover play-by-post game, since I haven't gotten to run one in 2e yet and I was inspired by this thread and the announcement itself. I have 2 Beasts, 2 Vampires, 1 Werewolf, and 1 Changeling (playtest rules with some tweaks), which, yes, means I ended up with a big group in addition to it being crossover, which is even more difficult, but I had trouble saying no to people showing interest, heh. (Mages, of course, were banned for reasons I've gone into previously, and they're very rare within the city)

    Anyway, a few things I've done is make it a setting conducive to it; like I've mentioned before, it's one where there's a small number of PC-type supernatural beings, but a large amount of supernatural happenstance, so it's a bit 'tier 1' in scope, with little more than a non-aggression pact spanning all supernatural groups for government.

    For the group itself (who have essentially come together as a bunch of professional know-it-alls i.e information traders), given the werewolf wanted a totem, beasts wanted family ties, changelings have pledges (I said Oaths work on supernaturals, but are unpredictable), and the Kindred would likely have been considering blood bonds, I made it so the combination of the different means of connection caused a sort of unifying effect that'll make things incredibly difficult if broken, but provides some unusual benefits that no given connection alone would offer. Bit of a plot device level of unity that they'll uncover more details about as things progress.

    One thing I'm planning to make a big deal about is how different supernaturals all have their own unique senses, and each individual similarly may have unique sensory powers as well. I try to add little side-notes for every individual, describing things only they can sense, a small part of the whole that they'll need. They all have ways to gather information, but it's the combination of all of the facets they can cover in their own unique way that'll make them so formidable in their "field".

    No real specific reason to mention this past thought spewing in case it helps anyone else, and any conversation/idea-churning it could potentially spark to make my life easier, heh.

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  • nofather
    replied
    Originally posted by branford View Post
    In the CofD, are there really many humans left in local government that aren't controlled, possessed, magically cowed, simply replaced or far, far worse by the innumerable mages, vampires, werewolves, demons, or other supernatural groups and individuals, various and sundry?
    Yes, supernaturals don't have the numbers to deal with them all, and even if they did they're not organized enough to do so and the vast majority wouldn't care.

    I want to know what it's like for the rare independent, free-willed "real" human in the county clerk's office or local zoning board.
    That's what almost all the blue books depict, their fiction often goes into it, though I don't know if there's specifically a county clerk or local zoning board officer.

    Boiled down: It's a little weird.
    Last edited by nofather; 09-07-2016, 06:13 PM.

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