Scions in CofD

[wyrdhamster]

I know Scion's universe - called World - is different universe than Chronicles of Darkness. However, I always was intrigued by idea of gods walking around man. And after Supernatural and American Gods, I totally could see those in modern horror setting. So could it work in both games Second Editions?

Mechanics doesn't sound as much throw off between Storytelling and Storypath systems - some Attributes and Skills conversion would be needed, but nothing outside of little reworking, on my first glance.

One of reason is for me to be able to throw here and there single Scion for wrecking havoc with supernaturals. I just would love to see a face of mage that assumed Shadow Name of Thor to meet guy that is real Thor reincarnate!

[atamajakki]

I would personally alter CofD Scions to be much more heavily bound by Fate at all tiers; to be the children and chosen of gods is to abandon the freedom of mortality in favor of blood feuds dating back before time and horrendous deaths that are set in stone by prophecy.

[wyrdhamster]

I would personally alter CofD Scions to be much more heavily bound by Fate at all tiers; to be the children and chosen of gods is to abandon the freedom of mortality in favor of blood feuds dating back before time and horrendous deaths that are set in stone by prophecy.

I was thinking it was Scion base assumption - but then I never read 1E of the game, only scraps here and there about it and got to point 'intriguing maybe I will get it someday'.

But yes, in CoD I would heavily connect Scions to Fate. Puzzling would be question is this Fate is related to changeling Wyrd or mages Destiny?

[ManusDomine]

No. Fate in Scion isn't really like the Wyrd, and it definetely isn't the Destiny of Mages.

It's more like:

[spoiler/]

[/spoiler]

So when one thing of reaaaaally powerful Legend starts putting pressure on Fate, everything that resembles that legend gets pulled in because it's not important anymore, and all that matters is the legend, and at some point you can't actually see anything other than the legend, because everything else has been pulled away.

[wyrdhamster]

So when one thing of reaaaaally powerful Legend starts putting pressure on Fate, everything that resembles that legend gets pulled in because it's not important anymore, and all that matters is the legend, and at some point you can't actually see anything other than the legend, because everything else has been pulled away.

I may need more concrete example, as I have hard time understanding this.

[wyrdhamster]

I got also interesting game theory - Gods are supergoetia of Astral that 'inhabit' mortals with they representation, creating Scions, and later could level to proper Gods level. Or theory that mages may be pointing to.
( Still do not know how this 'Astral origin' theory could clash with idea of Scions Legend and Fate... )

[ManusDomine]

I may need more concrete example, as I have hard time understanding this.

Okay, let's say Thor starts acting like an intellectual scholar. This is like, completely against the modern conception of him, but let's say he does it.

Let's say his Scions start spreading the message of Thor being primarily an intellectual scholar.

Soon, Thor will find that he is compulsed to act more and more like an intellectual scholar, soon becoming less and less able to act like his own brash self.

This will continue until for all purposes, Thor has always been an intellectual scholar.

You get it now?

[Raistlin]

Aren´t Scion powers a bit OP even in CoD?

[Omegaphallic]

Its too early to say until at least Origins and Hero are out.

[wyrdhamster]

Okay, let's say Thor starts acting like an intellectual scholar. This is like, completely against the modern conception of him, but let's say he does it.

Let's say his Scions start spreading the message of Thor being primarily an intellectual scholar.

Soon, Thor will find that he is compulsed to act more and more like an intellectual scholar, soon becoming less and less able to act like his own brash self.

This will continue until for all purposes, Thor has always been an intellectual scholar.

You get it now?

So Gods represent common human mental image of them, like Astral entities? They can have some older 'left-overs', but most of the time must work how general humanities zeitgeist think of particular God?

[ManusDomine]

So Gods represent common human mental image of them, like Astral entities? They can have some older 'left-overs', but most of the time must work how general humanities zeitgeist think of particular God?

Basically.

The Astral (and the Temenos) is actually a really good model of gods.

Whereas Titans are a whoooole other ballpark that I won't bother to cover right here.

(Or rather, that I won't bother covering until after I'm done with my lesson in law school.)

[wyrdhamster]

Reading Secrets of the Ruined Temple, I see that quasi-Scion gods of Astral are in CoD universe from early stage - they are called Eikons.

Eikons
Gods and saints play an important role in affairs of the soul, yet relatively few appear in the Temenos. Religious mages advocate a theological explanation for this mystery, and say that a true god — a god whose presence extends across the Fallen and Supernal Realms, and who isn’t “merely” an artifact of human thought — cannot be imitated in Astral Space. Most sorcerers, though, say the varying interpretations of different worshippers prevent gods from coalescing in Astral Space.

There are deities, however, whose worshippers see them so clearly, whose images and doctrines are so well-defined, that their avatars incarnate in the Realm of Dreams. An eikon is the manifestation of a god built from human thought. Eikons are considered blasphemous by some mages, who call them idolatrous simulacra built from the flawed mortal soul. Other mages say that an eikon is the reflection of a god cast in the sea of the human mind, and thus a true avatar of the divine.

Whatever the case, once an eikon incarnates, it needs only take one step further to achieve physical, chimerical incarnation. Eikons typically manifest from deities with extremely small, extremely devout groups of followers — groups usually considered cults. Sometimes, a single faithful advocate is enough to revivify a fading eikon within the Temenos. An eikon-deity usually has an ancient heritage, but has never been widely recognized; even in an eikon’s prime, its worshipers were carefully selected and practiced their rites in secret. Such gods are commonly lesser deities from polytheistic religions, or obscure angels, demons, devas or similar entities. Some eikons, however, begin as idiosyncratic versions of well-known deities, espoused by small and fanatical cults whom most believers would consider heretical, or at least deeply peculiar.

Eikons often shepherd their faithful in dreams, guiding their followers in worldly and magical affairs. Eikons rarely seek mages as acolytes because they fear a mage’s ability to confront them in Astral Space. Of the various chimerical entities, however, eikons are the most likely to succeed at physical incarnation: they are usually very smart, have access to earthly servants and possess the desire to meddle in worldly affairs.

Scions sounds as perfect servants for Eikons.

[Vent0]

I might be off, but it also sounds like a decent Scion!Titan analog in the CofD might be the Bound (from Mage) - Old Supernal Gods that were cast down and hunger for Mana.

When stating out Astral God's, maybe give them traits or a Numina like [Supernal Reflection] that lets them be treated as a Supernal Entity as well (possessing Arcana ratings as Influence, hold Mana instead of or in addition to Essence, etc.).

[wyrdhamster]

I might be off, but it also sounds like a decent Scion!Titan analog in the CofD might be the Bound (from Mage) - Old Supernal Gods that were cast down and hunger for Mana.

Thing with Supernal Gods is that they do not fully works with Sleepers belifs - they are somehow alien from being Supernal... They are much less 'Odin' than 'Death Lord of Knowledge', if you get my drill. Astral!Odin is more or less the Odin we have from ours myths - more, as Temenos is slowly changing, reflecting now humanity's zeitgeist, old Astral Gods - Eikons - become less and less prominent. It nicely work how, for example, in American Gods book and TV series Odin want's to become more and more relevant to modern USA, doing all things to enforce his worship. And paying in Essence is more than enough for 'collecting worship' from humans.

When stating out Astral God's, maybe give them traits or a Numina like [Supernal Reflection] that lets them be treated as a Supernal Entity as well (possessing Arcana ratings as Influence, hold Mana instead of or in addition to Essence, etc.).

Most of the time, there is no need to diffrent - you can have Influnaces on things that Arcana reflects, like Matter or Time. Lady of Death surely have Influance: Death 5 with her, don't she?

[Tessie]

Most of the time, there is no need to diffrent - you can have Influnaces on things that Arcana reflects, like Matter or Time. Lady of Death surely have Influance: Death 5 with her, don't she?

I think that differs from table to table. Since there's no actual guidelines to what Influences can do, one table could have them be extremely restrictive while another might have them be just as wide and useful as Arcana. And by that I mean both Practices and purviews. What Influence dots can do what Knowing, Unveiling, Shielding and Veiling can do? Could someone with Influence: Death manipulate souls the same way as someone with the Death Arcanum? Can someone with Influence: Space manipulate Sympathy or do you need Influence: Sympathy for that?