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The Olympics of Darkness

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  • The Olympics of Darkness

    Inspired by Salsacookies "What are the toughest Monsters?", I got curious about other penultimate achievements. Just what can be done by crunching enough numbers?
    So I declare the Olympics of Darkness open!

    The Areas of Competition:
    Sprint: What are the fastest Splats? (No Teleportation!)
    Long-Distance: Same as sprint, but over a long distance.
    Endurance: Who can run longer than the competition?
    Jumping: Who can jump the furthest/highest?
    Weight-lifting: Who can lift the most weight (no telekinesis or assistance from outside, pure physical work!)?
    Throwing: Who can fling something very far away, preferably towards a goal (again, no telekinesis or similar helps!)?
    Swimming: Who is the fastest swimmer, the best diver or can hold his breath the longest?
    Grappling: Judo, wrestling, bar-room-brawling - who can pin down his opponent the best?
    Perception: Who is able to notice the most, from the slightest movement to seeing in the brightest light or deepest dark?
    Target shooting: Who reacts quickly enough and shoots so unerringly s/he wins? Free choice of weapon/projectile (yes, you can fling lightning and fireballs if you want to)


    Social Competitions (bluffing, debating, charming) and intellectual (Chess, Spelling Bee, Trivia Quiz) would be nice to see, too. Because I like the idea of a werewolf trying his damnedest to spell cymotrichous while on another table a half-living corpse sets a Kraken in check and an animated tree plays an ancient mummy in history questions (spoiler alert, the mummy loses =P).

    The games are open for Amateurs (out of the gate-characters) and Pros (High-End), of course.
    Any other disciplines come to mind? Feel free to enter them =D
    Last edited by Wormwood; 10-19-2016, 04:28 AM. Reason: typos

  • #2
    Core-Book Vampires:

    Sprint: Celerity lets at a 1 Vitae cost you add your Speed all over again, whyle Vigor and Protean add to Speed proper. Since I'm going to work soon, I'll make the calculations proper later.

    Long-Distance: Unless you make a Devotion for such, you can take Celerity out of the picture, but the other two still applies.

    Endurance: I'm not sure by now if a vampire ever tires over running.

    Jumping: Vigor used to add a lot to jumps, but I'm not sure if they're still so in 2nd ed. I think no.

    Weight-lifting: Vigor not only adds directly to your Stregth, at 1 Vitae it makes for more power, I don't remember how much.

    Throwing: Vigor again, maybe with some help of Devotions for throwing, but at least it makes you able to wield anything as a proper weapon.

    Swimming: For speed, as above. Protean can do a lot to better sheer swiming ability, and vampires can hold their breath for all eternity, so they're not competing in that.

    Grappling: Well, I'm going to look a lot in the Merits for specifics, and to take a look in the rules for the Kiss, to remember how much they can improve by draining the target.

    Perception: Very good night vision by default, coupled with a hell of a track sense for blood, plus Merits for improving both. And them you get Auspex, and just start to get almost any information from everywere just by spending blood and asking the ST.

    Target shooting: Not quite something that can be used to shoot better, but Celerity lets you declare Initiative victory, so senses + Celerity would probably make it the fastest gunner in the wild west. Maybe a Devotion, can't look now.


    #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
    #AutismPride
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    • #3
      I'm mostly familiar with Vampire and Mage, but before crunching numbers I think those two would be in the lead for sprinting, while Mage takes the Long-distance and Endurance.

      Assuming Attributes 5, Power Trait 5, Disciplines 5, Max Arcana for Gnosis 5, and relevant Devotions and Rotes.


      Sprint:
      Vampires can get up to 20 Speed before using any active powers (5+Strength+Dexterity+Vigor). On top of that they can get +4 from Protean, add 5 from Blood Potency when in Frenzy with the Coil of the Wyrm, add +4 from shifting dots from Stamina with Force of Nature (I'm assuming you have to leave at least one dot of real Stamina even if you have Resilience) and multiply it by 6 by spending a Vitae each turn to activate Celerity. Total speed: 198 (for 15 turns/45 seconds as long as they tanked up after Force of Nature).

      Mages can use the spell Honing the Form (Life •••) with the appropriate Reaches to extend beyond the maximum trait limit. With Mudra +5, Shadow Name (and Cabal Theme) +4, High Speech +2, and Runes +2 they get a potential dicepool of 22 (they only have Life 4; I'll explain why later). Base Potency is 4 and by reducing the dicepool they can up it to 13 while upping Duration from a scene to a day, leaving two dice left to cast the spell. By casting Exceptional Luck (Fate ••) with the appropriate Reach they gain Steadfast which allows them to turn that likely failure into a success on the spellcasting roll. Their base Speed is now 28 (5+Strength+Dexterity+Honing the Form) for a day.
      The reason the Mage only had Life 4 was because they have Time 5 (and Gnosis 5 only allows a single five dot Arcanum). Adding two extra Potency (one for the base Potency and one for the larger dicepool) to Hone the Form is not as important as adding two extra Potency to Acceleration (Time •••). The dicepool with the same Yantras is now 23. The base potency is 5. By reducing the dicepool to gain extra potency and duration (and abusing Exceptional Luck again) the Mage gets Potency 15, meaning the Mage multiplies their base Speed by 15 for an entire day. They now have 420 Speed for a whole day.

      I think the Mage wins the Sprint. Also the Long-distance.

      With the right Coils a Vampire may stay awake 24/7 for only a single Vitae per day (on top of the regular one), but they won't get very far in the sun. Even Epidermal Shielding Bath needs to be reapplied after 24 hours so they can run for two nights and a day. Unless they run on an indoor track, which is quite boring. Either way Mages can cast spells to keep themselves going with Indefinite Duration while a Vampire would need to restock on the Vitae after a week (or 15 days if they manage to stay up without using the Coil of the Ascendant).

      Tl;dr: Mages with the right spells will just blaze past the poor Vamps.
      Last edited by Tessie; 10-19-2016, 08:19 AM.


      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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      • #4
        The numbers for maxed characters would be:
        318 Speed for 75 turns/18.75 minutes for the Vampire
        836 Speed for a day for the Mage

        And the Mage wouldn't even suffer any Paradox risk.
        Last edited by Tessie; 10-19-2016, 09:31 AM. Reason: Forgot the extra Yantras for a Gnosis 10 Mage


        Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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        • #5
          It looks like Mages are pretty OP.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Salsacookies View Post
            It looks like Mages are pretty OP.
            If you give them prep-time, yeah. If you look at out-of-the-gate characters, much less so. Only a paranoid mage lives long enough to be a good mage imo =D

            Tessie Thanks, those look awesome =D
            monteparnas looking towards those, especially the shooting/perception

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            • #7
              No complaints, it's just making me feel more sure that WOD was a good game line to check out. I'm a sucker for Horror, and all the different, viable Horror choices is just a plus.

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              • #8
                When it comes to Jumping Vampires gets a lot of small bonuses topped off with multiplying the amount of successes by (Vigor + 1) to calculate the number of metres/yards thrown.

                Power Trait 5 Class Vampire:
                5 Strength + 5 Vigor + 5 Athletics + 5 in Frenzy/Riding + 5 for Riding the Wave (Style) + 10 for Physical Intensity + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + 4 from shifting dots with Force of Nature + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 41 nine again rote action. That's an average of 26.1375 successes. 26 * 6 = 156 metres or yards.

                Power Trait 10 Class Vampire:
                10 Strength + 5 Vigor + 10 Athletics + 10 in Frenzy/Riding + 10 for Riding the Wave (Style) + 30 for Physical Intensity + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + 9 from shifting dots with Force of Nature + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 86 nine again rote action. That's an average of 54.825 successes. 55 * 6 = 330 metres or yards.


                Mages don't have much to increase their jumping in 2E (by the way, I've only used materials in the 2E core books as of yet) but what they have can do quite a lot, just like with their Speed.

                Power Trait 5 Class Mage:
                First we use Honing the Form which we know has a Potency of 13 when the Mage is a Master of another Arcanum. Base is then 18 Strength + 5 Athletics + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 25 nine again rote action. A simple Boon turns that into an eight again. That's an average of ~16.7571 successes.
                But the Mage is a Master of Forces and also casts Gravitic Supremacy (Forces •••) with Potency 15, meaning the distance jumped becomes 17*15 = 255 metres or yards.

                Power Trait 10 Class Mage:
                Honing the Form is now cast with Potency 19 (just trust me on the calculations). That's 29 Strength + 10 Athletics + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 41 nine again rote action. A simple Boon turns that into an eight again. That's an average of ~29.8714 successes.
                Gravitic Supremacy is also cast with Potency 19 meaning the distance jumped becomes 30*19 = 570 metres or yards.


                Again the Mages reign supreme in the arena, but nullifying the gravity in order to jump further might be grounds for disqualification. But if anything goes a simple Alter Direction (Space ••••) can theoretically make a Mage "jump" a theoretically unlimited distance by simply redefining down as up. Then a lowly Gnosis 3 Space Adept could beat any Elder. It does not help much with landing, though.


                Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                  When it comes to Jumping Vampires gets a lot of small bonuses topped off with multiplying the amount of successes by (Vigor + 1) to calculate the number of metres/yards thrown.

                  Power Trait 5 Class Vampire:
                  5 Strength + 5 Vigor + 5 Athletics + 5 in Frenzy/Riding + 5 for Riding the Wave (Style) + 10 for Physical Intensity + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + 4 from shifting dots with Force of Nature + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 41 nine again rote action. That's an average of 26.1375 successes. 26 * 6 = 156 metres or yards.

                  Power Trait 10 Class Vampire:
                  10 Strength + 5 Vigor + 10 Athletics + 10 in Frenzy/Riding + 10 for Riding the Wave (Style) + 30 for Physical Intensity + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + 9 from shifting dots with Force of Nature + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 86 nine again rote action. That's an average of 54.825 successes. 55 * 6 = 330 metres or yards.


                  Mages don't have much to increase their jumping in 2E (by the way, I've only used materials in the 2E core books as of yet) but what they have can do quite a lot, just like with their Speed.

                  Power Trait 5 Class Mage:
                  First we use Honing the Form which we know has a Potency of 13 when the Mage is a Master of another Arcanum. Base is then 18 Strength + 5 Athletics + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 25 nine again rote action. A simple Boon turns that into an eight again. That's an average of ~16.7571 successes.
                  But the Mage is a Master of Forces and also casts Gravitic Supremacy (Forces •••) with Potency 15, meaning the distance jumped becomes 17*15 = 255 metres or yards.

                  Power Trait 10 Class Mage:
                  Honing the Form is now cast with Potency 19 (just trust me on the calculations). That's 29 Strength + 10 Athletics + 2 for jumping Specialty with Area of Expertise + Professional Training lands a dice pool of 41 nine again rote action. A simple Boon turns that into an eight again. That's an average of ~29.8714 successes.
                  Gravitic Supremacy is also cast with Potency 19 meaning the distance jumped becomes 30*19 = 570 metres or yards.


                  Again the Mages reign supreme in the arena, but nullifying the gravity in order to jump further might be grounds for disqualification. But if anything goes a simple Alter Direction (Space ••••) can theoretically make a Mage "jump" a theoretically unlimited distance by simply redefining down as up. Then a lowly Gnosis 3 Space Adept could beat any Elder. It does not help much with landing, though.
                  I think that's really cool! Gravitic Supremacy would only be fair play if others would benefit from it the same though, which would defeat the purpose =P
                  Even without it, that's quite some distance from the Mages. A bit more than I would've expected, to be honest. Curious to see how Uraha and company will fare in comparison. And how creative the "cheating attempts" like Gravitic Supremacy will get =D

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                  • #10
                    Its quite interesting, though in maxed characters Mages are going to win by default. What "balance" them is the need for prep (and that makes a lot).

                    I won't be able look further in the books by now, but as soon as I am, I will, unless someone else dos it.


                    #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs
                    #AutismPride
                    She/her pronouns

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                    • #11
                      Crimson spasm means that werewolves technically don't have an upper limit on how strong they can get, but in practice they'll be limited to what they can roll on 15 (at PU5) or 25 (at PU 10) dice, which is going to average +5 or +8 strength, respectively.

                      So, assuming they have the Father's Form facet and can thus assume Gauru casually, at PU5 they've potentially got 5 + 3 (from Gauru) + 5 (from Primal Strength) +1 (from Favoured Form) + 1 (from Totem) +1 (from totemic empowerment) +1 (from Embodiment of the Firstborn) + 5 (ish from Crimson Spasm) = 22 strength.

                      And at PU 10 it's 10 +3 +5+1+1+1+1+8(ish) = 30 strength.

                      Might be able to push higher, depending on whether or not you let Reflected Facets stack multiple copies of Primal Strength.

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                      • #12
                        Interesting Exercise ...

                        As far as mages go, their biggest drawback is opportunity cost. Sure a theoretical Mage can be maxed out in all Arcana, and can do anything. but in on-the-table experience means that the Mage will have to focus, which will leave weaknesses and vulnerabilities in what they can and can't do.

                        At my table we often do an exercise where we create a Mortal character, then use each template (maybe with a 35-50xp) to create a different version of that character. For comparing capabilities, this might be more useful and insightful than number crunching the highest power levels.


                        The Artificer's Workshop - A collection of Exalted Artifacts
                        Curios, Relics, and Tomes - A collection of Relics (Cursed and Otherwise)
                        The Horror Lab - A collection of Beasts, Monsters and less definable things.
                        Strange Places - A collection of Dark, Mysterious, and Wondrous Locations
                        Twilight Menagerie - A collection of Ephemeral Entities

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                        • #13
                          Hunters would own trivia because they need to know such a wide breadth of knowledge.

                          Also, werewolves, are they restricted to purely human form?

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                          • #14
                            Reighnhell thanks! ^^
                            true. I assumed the Mortal template would be pretty much the same (if you want to Lift weights, you will go for Athletics 5 and strength 5, for example). Of course a real/ normal character would Stay behind these achievements, much like we normal humans can't comparison with olympic athletes.
                            For our purposes, let's assume the Focus of that character is to participate in these very olympics, so weaknesses would be unimportant.

                            Hm. Got me thinking though. Maybe we should give more thought to different "weight classes"? Like, character-creation, 10 xp, 25 xp, 50 xp etc?
                            Though I like the white room maxed - out examples, for the creativity and entertainment ^^.

                            monteparnas I don't see a way to counter mage's preperation benefit, since that need is what Balances their power. Only reflexive/Instant spells allowed, maybe?

                            @Flyboy254
                            Nope, gauru etc are fair game

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                            • #15
                              To be fair, the Mage preparations that have been discussed should be able to be accomplished in a matter of turns. We're talking like a minute tops, not hours worth of time.

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