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Prohibitive Penalties for Opening Primordial Pathways

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  • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    My words include multiple not-uncharitable paraphrases of your words, including "Opening a Primordial Pathway requires only the presence of a Lair Trait corresponding to your Lair; the benefit of a Chamber to making Primordial Pathway rolls is the ability to instantiate your Lair Traits without having any of them present at the time" and take into account the facts that Lair Traits include "there is some manner of fluid in this location that is waist-deep or deeper," "the geography of this location is difficult to navigate," "there is a moderately-sized fire in this location," "this location is as cold as the average walk-in freezer," or "this location is foggy," that the presence of one allows you to invoke the others without a roll or expenditure, and that Chambers can be formed in locations that do not normally contain elements that match one of your Lair Traits.

    If you wish to contest my understanding of your interpretation, or any of the things from the books that I brought up — things that you asked for despite demonstrating a willingness to ignore otherwise clear statements like "your Chambers are relevant to the actual opening of Primordial Pathways, as evidenced by the mention of them in the roll results for the act itself, the use of a direct example of the act in the section on how locations' similarity to Chambers relates to Lair Traits, and the explicit presence of a bonus to use a particular Chamber for them in one of the Satiety Conditions" or interpret them in a manner which is less straightforward than directly implicit but better suits your desired outcome — then by all means continue to be a drain on my day off, but don't waste my time by saying you're done talking and then talking to me about how you're not interested in talking to me.

    You and I evidently have very different thresholds for what constitutes an attempt at conversation.
    Sure. You should do something enjoyable with your day off instead of doing something you consider a drain. Hope you have a good day. ^.^

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    • Originally posted by Paradim View Post

      Sure. You should do something enjoyable with your day off instead of doing something you consider a drain. Hope you have a good day. ^.^
      Don't do that please, it's threadcrapping and adds nothing to the conversation. If you are done speaking with someone then be done with it and move on.


      Onyx Path Forum Administrator
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      • Satchel, please review your point by point addressing of Paradim. Starting off each sentence with "you're suggesting..." comes across as antagonistic, I should have addressed that in my previous post. Please be aware of how your tone may be perceived when formatting your replies so as to avoid this kind of exchange in the future.


        Onyx Path Forum Administrator
        Posts in this color are moderator posts
        Posts in this color mean a Great Old One has driven me mad.
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        • I don't know if this has been suggested so far, but I always found the Wits + Resolve dice pool for opening the Primordial Pathways to be strange and rather small. One possible solution would be to change it to Resolve + Occult + Lair, and come up with a quick high Lair Merit that lets you gain an Exceptional Success with 3 Successes.


          "Fate is a cruel jester with a finely developed sense of irony." - Sir Night as portrayed by Leliel, The Horror Recognition Guide

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          • Originally posted by GibberingEloquence View Post
            I don't know if this has been suggested so far, but I always found the Wits + Resolve dice pool for opening the Primordial Pathways to be strange and rather small.
            You're not the only one who uses it and the ability to link places to a patch of real estate in a dimension of sensory-feedback through similar observable qualities is more a function of imagination and concentration than application of esoteric variables and mystical gravity. The Pathway's dicepool gets bigger in direct proportion to the length it stays open prior to exceptional success and the overlap method is by design the least secure means of entry available to characters even before accounting for the capacity to hand out spare keys.


            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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            • Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
              According to the 'Accessing Your Lair' section, and the really horribly placed and named 'Chambers and Lair Traits' section, the total dice penalty for trying to open a Pathway from a place similar to your chamber (ie, graveyard to graveyard) is -8.

              If you recreate the circumstances under which you formed the original chamber perfectly, it's still -5 (-3 for material world, not the location of chamber, and -2 for Spiritual similarity).

              This is ludicrous.

              Are people actually playing with these penalties?
              Seeing as the back of the book doesn't refer to the traits modifiers effecting moving through primordial pathways to your lair, and it is not written or referred to in the open the primordial pathway section, I don't use it in my games. I did try briefly after reading on here that some interpret it differently, but the multiple tables and referencing seems unnecessary, missplaced and not intended.

              So no, not everyone uses the 'double penalty's as they're mechanics written for two different abilities.

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