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Homebrew rules for Primordial Pathways and Imposing Lair Traits?

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  • Homebrew rules for Primordial Pathways and Imposing Lair Traits?

    As anyone following this thread would realize, the rules for opening Pathways and Imposing Traits seem to be messy. I'm saying 'seem to be' because as someone who haven't bought the final product, I can't honestly say I'm in a proper position to criticize them, and I most likely picked up biases from relying on other people's interpretations.

    That said, has anybody brewed up house rules on those aspects? I'd appreciate it even if your 'house rules' are just a cleaned-up version of what you believe to be RAW or RAI in your table/headcanon!


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

  • #2
    I'm.... Concerned about some aspects. This is one problem I've noticed.

    You can start the game with only one Chamber, your Heart Chamber, which explicitly has so material world correspondence. If imposing Traits depends on similarity to a Chamber you have... How can you impose Traits using only your Heart Chamber that doesn't have any basis to draw upon?

    This seems limiting. And not in the "I have less options" way, but more as "there doesn't seem much to go on, for using this".

    Further, I'm not entirely clear on how Lairs hook up with the Primordial Dream and how accessible other Beast's Lairs are to you. It doesn't seem right that another Beast can just waltz into your Lair whenever they feel like it. Some kind of system to show a contest might be nice, and possibly some kind of reward system to encourage conflict between Beasts?

    Just thoughts over been musing on...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Paradim View Post
      You can start the game with only one Chamber, your Heart Chamber, which explicitly has so material world correspondence. If imposing Traits depends on similarity to a Chamber you have... How can you impose Traits using only your Heart Chamber that doesn't have any basis to draw upon?
      You can't, absent the presence of one of your Lair Traits to circumvent the "spent a Satiety and a Willpower to call up your Traits from nothing" roll.

      You get Experiences for starting without a second Chamber because it's a substantial handicap and you'll have to get through an entire story before you can pick up the third Chamber that other starting characters immediately have the ability to gain.


      Resident Sanguinary Analyst
      Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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      • #4
        If I recall merging lairs does have a check imposed on it if the chamber is unknown. I think it was mentioned in a section regarding the idea of a Beast trying to establish a chamber in an area where they can feel a sufficient trauma occurred, but were not directly responsible for, after another beast has claimed that spot. It's mentioned that the forcible overlay does tend to evoke a hostile reaction from most Beasts for the incident. I think there was some extra difficulty added to the check for making the chamber or something, but I'm not entirely sure.

        As far as the heart thing goes. I've viewed it like this, you can't easily open a path directly to the heart due to the heart not having a direct link up location and even with the material world. Which is rather good for defense all things considered. There are still traits in the Heart should you want them to be there (at least I don't recall anything ever saying the Heart couldn't have lair traits) thus a Beast with only the Heart of their Lair would still be able to call forth the traits when they're needed.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
          That said, has anybody brewed up house rules on those aspects? I'd appreciate it even if your 'house rules' are just a cleaned-up version of what you believe to be RAW or RAI in your table/headcanon!
          My understanding, as follows:

          1. You don't need to roll or spend anything to invoke Lair Traits from the mere presence of one of your Lair Traits — if the Heart of your Lair is the sample Flooded/Corrosive digestive tract, the presence of waist-high fluid can be used to invoke the dissolution of relevant substances regardless of where you are; if you're in a place that already contains one of the potential-constants of your Lair, bringing the others in is relatively trivial by virtue of the same channels that give you your Environmental Immunities.

          2. You need a Chamber or Chamber-analogue to invoke Lair Traits from nothing, and while the former only costs a dot of Satiety, the latter's Willpower surcharge and Wits + Resolve roll are in addition to the standard cost — this makes substitution consistently more difficult than using the base location regardless of preparation, as well as preventing Slumbering characters from making use of the more overt powers of calling upon Lair Traits without being in situations where their lack of Immunities already puts them at risk, thus narrowing the field of viable entry points to your Lair through the Pathways.

          3. Your Heart can serve as the basis for invoking Lair Traits or opening Pathways, though the more out-there examples are going to be naturally less useful for this as a tradeoff for heightened security against similar substitution; lack of a concrete material counterpart means the best connection you can hope for (barring a truly extreme feat of engineering) is descriptive similarity, since there's no formative basis for the Chamber besides "you are the Beast that you are" and thus there's no narrative to recreate short of the kind of thing you'd use to pursue Incarnation — you can't really be reborn as a monster again otherwise.

          4. Opening a Primordial Pathway using the standard Wits + Resolve roll costs a point of Willpower regardless of destination and requires the external end of the connection be a place with at least descriptive similarity to one of your Chambers — Lair Traits help the roll but are not essential; your Traits may be the cornerstones of your Lair and the basis for your Horror's affinity for a location, but a Chamber is one of a limited number of discrete locations within your hunting grounds and thus merits greater consideration than the broad motifs of Traits for the purposes of determining whether a personal appearance by the monster itself is warranted in a given location.

          5a. Entering your Lair through an open Pathway and staying there is a function of moving to a connecting Burrow, which manifests within the external location in the defined fashion of that connection (hole in the wall, specific route, etc) as part of the overlap, or otherwise attempting to leave the bounds of the external area before the Pathway closes; thresholds are thus some of the better places to open a Pathway, because leaving is a matter of turning around or crossing the street.

          5b. Alternately, there is some element of an open Pathway's overlap that functions like a Burrow, which a Beast may allow themselves and their guests to move through reflexively or bar intruders from using as per the rules for Invited and Uninvited Guests such that they wind up inside the Lair when the Pathway closes. In this fashion, Beasts needn't scramble to access their strongholds for extended periods at the points of easiest reference.

          6. The most basic benefit of entering your Lair through Skeleton Key or Under the Bed is a reduced likelihood of accompanying intruders — the former gives you the ability to reflexively shut the gate early, while the latter only transports you personally. The comparatively higher pool for Skeleton Key encourages the Begotten to seek out supernatural real-estate regardless of their interest in other worlds, while the degree of setup necessitated for Under the Bed encourages Beasts to occasionally involve mortals in their feeding or keep closer tabs on their mortal family and former victims and serves as a means of Lair reentry that can be attempted theoretically anywhere in the world regardless of the local magical landscape or your open Chamber slots.

          7. Granting another character freedom to come and go from the Lair with Be My Guest gives them the ability to spend Willpower and roll Wits + Resolve under the same conditions as the Beast whose Lair they're accessing, including Chamber resonance, Lair Traits, and Satiety Conditions. In this fashion the nature of secondhand Chambers in relation to Kinship allows a character's Legend to expand through symbiosis — housing the werewolf whose hunts forged one of your Chambers allows you to pick up on their handiwork in similar environments and let them move between those places with relative ease.
          Last edited by Satchel; 11-30-2016, 11:47 PM.


          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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