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  • #31
    Originally posted by Arcanist View Post
    So what do the the Insatiable actually do to antagonize Beasts? I see some references in this thread to hijacking Lairs and something called Schism, but what does that actually translate to? What is their particular predatory motivation?
    They'll steal Lairs, primarily, and Atavisms. They look down on Beasts, which given their attitude is probably antagonistic enough. It hops around a little, but they're rejected members of the 'family,' who want what they believe they deserve. The Astral Realm thing was really embraced, as they are not standard human fears but of the world's memories.

    The Schism is sort of like Disquiet, a roiling paranoia among people in the area. It's has a negative impact on the Primordial Dream but mechanically it just offers a potentially substantial, 1 to 10, penalty to social rolls in the area. Supposedly the Insatiate can guide the Schism but they suffer the penalty as well.

    They'll probably make good antagonists in other games. They'd definitely be on the werewolf hit list, considering Schism wrecks the Gauntlet pretty good.
    Last edited by nofather; 01-12-2017, 12:34 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post

      So: in a game founded on the subversion of the traditional hero-vs-beast dynamic, we're getting beast-like monsters that are so horrific that Beast-vs-Insatiable resembles the traditional hero-vs-beast dynamic? Interesting…

      I think it can work if they're not overused. Especially in response to players starting to take their characters' own predations too lightly. But certainly that conflict should not be a norm the game should focus on.


      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Leliel View Post


        The Schism doesn't strike me as something that would keep the Insatiable safe in their own pocket dimension, nor do I think they can call on it for Tilts. It just causes mortals to act crazy.

        And I fail to see where they don't get Satiety when they want it. They just eat people to do so.
        So let me get this straight. They burn 3 Satiety to get into one of the Lair's Chambers and then enter into a contested roll based on their Satiety. You expect me to believe that it just brought a human along to re-up it's dice pool like some kind of happy meal on legs?

        Sorry, I'm not buying it. The mechanics are a mess. Like the first draft of Heroes, I'm not convinced that Insatiable pose anything more than a mild annoyance to Beasts. But YMMV and like everything else, it's quite fixable.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Jacob View Post
          So let me get this straight. They burn 3 Satiety to get into one of the Lair's Chambers and then enter into a contested roll based on their Satiety. You expect me to believe that it just brought a human along to re-up it's dice pool like some kind of happy meal on legs?
          It is weird. The roll is against the Beast's Willpower + Lair, too. Their powers seem interesting in description but the mechanics for them sort of fall flat. The Schism being a social penalty is pretty weak, and the Insatiate suffering from it too seems to go against their description.

          EDIT: It might be referring to the Obedience Esurient, but it's more of an obey, not insinuate.

          The Player's Guide seriously needs to add some sort of Beast Akashic Record, too. Everyone seems expected to know about things without having anyone who would tell them.
          Last edited by nofather; 01-12-2017, 01:06 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Jacob View Post
            So let me get this straight. They burn 3 Satiety to get into one of the Lair's Chambers and then enter into a contested roll based on their Satiety. You expect me to believe that it just brought a human along to re-up it's dice pool like some kind of happy meal on legs?
            Because as we all know, a monster that specifically wreaks havoc through the Primordial Dream and gains benefits analogous to a physical merger with a Horror (which include increased Attributes) would never use a less costly route into a Beast's Lair that goes through the hive, and certainly couldn't have more than above-average Presence like two thirds of the example characters do.


            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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            • #36
              Actually, there is one precedent for contested action subtracting successes from the other roll: Containing Paradox in Mage.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
                Actually, there is one precedent for contested action subtracting successes from the other roll: Containing Paradox in Mage.

                That's not really a contested roll, more like a dodge one.

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                • #38
                  Have only read the introductory chapter. The blurbs on Heroes and particularly monstrous Beasts are about what I expected for a Night Horrors book.

                  The Insatiables my first thought being:

                  "...so they're just Idigam for Beasts?"

                  Complete with the whole being an ancient race of creatures older then Beasts, being apart of an unknowable section of the Begotten's home turf, their primary deity casting them out but not able to definitively kill them, and now them being back to make the Begotten as miserable as possible. Haven't heard that one before...

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                    Have only read the introductory chapter. The blurbs on Heroes and particularly monstrous Beasts are about what I expected for a Night Horrors book.

                    The Insatiables my first thought being:

                    "...so they're just Idigam for Beasts?"

                    Complete with the whole being an ancient race of creatures older then Beasts, being apart of an unknowable section of the Begotten's home turf, their primary deity casting them out but not able to definitively kill them, and now them being back to make the Begotten as miserable as possible. Haven't heard that one before...
                    Werewolf doesn't has a ownership to the idea of mad ancient beings. It was a idea created by lovecraft

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
                      Have only read the introductory chapter. The blurbs on Heroes and particularly monstrous Beasts are about what I expected for a Night Horrors book.

                      The Insatiables my first thought being:

                      "...so they're just Idigam for Beasts?"

                      Complete with the whole being an ancient race of creatures older then Beasts, being apart of an unknowable section of the Begotten's home turf, their primary deity casting them out but not able to definitively kill them, and now them being back to make the Begotten as miserable as possible. Haven't heard that one before...
                      Sounds like they are the Primordial Dreams understanding of all the "Nemesis" or "Ancient Horror" creatures... which works since we as humans have a Fasination about them...


                      Light and Dark are two Sides of a Coin... Humanity is What Happens when it Lands on it's Edge.

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                      • #41
                        Potential buyer wondering, 'bestiary' sourcebooks about non-playable antagonists and RPG material about 'Van Helsing' mortal hunters of supernaturals typically rate very low in my interest and priority scale. I usually get moved to buy the former only late in a game's development cycle for sheer completist purposes, if I can find a good bargain sale, or if I heard the book somehow has stuff with significant potential use for character development. I almost never bother to buy 'hunter' games - definitely including any WoD/CoD version of Hunter, with the single exception of Dark Ages: Inquisitor - since I find the concept extremely boring and unappealing (even more so than Promethean, and that's a lot). Given these preferences of mine, how much do you think Conquering Heroes might potentially turn interesting and useful for me, if any ? I am wondering if it would be worthwhile and not too much of a disappointment for me, given my high general interest in the game line, for me to buy the book now or I should better wait at least until Beast Player's Guide is released.
                        Last edited by Irioth; 01-12-2017, 11:22 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Irioth View Post
                          Given these preferences of mine, how much do you think Conquering Heroes might potentially turn interesting and useful for me, if any ? I am wondering if it would be worthwhile and not too much of a disappointment for me, given my high general interest in the game line, for me to buy the book now or I should better wait at least until Beast Player's Guide is released.
                          While it is pretty cheap, the book seems to have just things you wouldn't be interested in. The first chapter is heroes, the second is Beasts, usually of the 'run amok' sort but at the least not ones most players would enjoy playing, and the third are Insatiates, which it suggests shouldn't be played. You could have a player be an Insatiate but, by the book at least, they don't work well with other Beasts.

                          I'm big on playable antagonists as well. I'm sure the Insatiate could be done pretty easily with other monsters, but they wouldn't work well within the confines of a Beast game. Their Schism radiation acts sort of like Disquiet.
                          Last edited by nofather; 01-12-2017, 11:00 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by nofather View Post

                            While it is pretty cheap, the book seems to have just things you wouldn't be interested in. The first chapter is heroes, the second is Beasts, usually of the 'run amok' sort but at the least not ones most players would enjoy playing, and the third are Insatiates, which it suggests shouldn't be played. You could have a player be an Insatiate but, by the book at least, they don't work well with other Beasts.

                            I'm big on playable antagonists as well. I'm sure the Insatiate could be done pretty easily with other monsters, but they wouldn't work well within the confines of a Beast game. Their Schism radiation acts sort of like Disquiet.
                            Thanks for the advice, but what a pity. The blurb misled me to think the book had worthwhile info on Inheritance Beasts instead of the Insatiates, and that had piqued my interest. While the other Inheritance types do make a character pretty much unplayable and useless except as the 'animalistic' kind of antagonist draugr and lesser spirits represent, I entirely regard Incarnate Beasts as very useful and fitting as 'elder' NPC and PC options in high-power, high-stakes games, the same as vampire elders and archmages. So I'm eager for additional stuff on them.

                            From what you and others have said, I'm getting a vibe of the Insatiates being rather like the Strix for vampires, the Banishers for mages, or the Pandorans for Prometheans: e.g. the 'odd' supernaturals that hunt and harass the 'normal' type of their own splat for their own reasons and are bogeymen for the bogeymen, being effective enough to be a serious threat, but not so powerful as to owerwhelm their targets on a regular basis (unlike say the Gentry for changelings, or the God-Machine for demons).
                            Last edited by Irioth; 01-12-2017, 01:40 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Irioth View Post

                              Thanks for the advice, but what a pity. The blurb misled me to think the book had worthwhile info on Inheritance Beasts instead of the Insatiates, and that had piqued my interest. While the other Inheritance types do make a character pretty much unplayable and useless except as the 'animalistic' kind of antagonist draugr and lesser spirits represent, I entirely regard Incarnate Beasts as very useful and fitting as 'elder' NPC and PC options in high-power, high-stakes games, the same as vampire elders and archmages. So I'm eager for additional stuff on them.

                              From what you and others have said, I'm getting a vibe of the Insatiates being rather like the Strix for vampires, the Banishers for mages, or the Pandorans for Prometheans: e.g. the 'odd' supernaturals that hunt and harass the 'normal' type of their own splat for their own reasons and are bogeymen for the bogeymen, being effective enough to be a serious threat, but not so powerful as to owerwhelm their targets on a regular basis (unlike say the Gentry for changelings, or the God-Machine for demons).
                              To be clear most (all?) of the sample Beasts are ones who have achieved one of the Inheritances, and you can gain some fluff insight into how to play them from it, but there's no mechanics, or anything that makes them more playable than they are in Beast Core.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lnodiv View Post
                                To be clear most (all?) of the sample Beasts are ones who have achieved one of the Inheritances, and you can gain some fluff insight into how to play them from it, but there's no mechanics, or anything that makes them more playable than they are in Beast Core.
                                All but one.

                                You're actually in luck though, two are Incarnates; one's a somewhat mercenary potential ally, the other is BBEG material.


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