Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sell me on conqurering heroes.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sell me on conqurering heroes.

    Whats in the the new night horror book? What new mechanics? Is the fluff useful for ideas, or is it just trying to be be entertaining, mood setting or even preachy? Are there new Atavisms, or famillies? What new ideas are in the book? Is it worth having?


    Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

  • #2
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    Whats in the the new night horror book? What new mechanics? Is the fluff useful for ideas, or is it just trying to be be entertaining, mood setting or even preachy? Are there new Atavisms, or famillies? What new ideas are in the book? Is it worth having?
    There are a few new Anathemas and Gifts for Heroes, as well as several example Heroes. There are also example antagonist Beasts who've attained their Inheritance. Finally, there's a new type of creature called Insatiables, who are pseudo-Beasts who reflect fears from before humanity, and who claim to be birthed from something other than the Dark Mother. They kill mortals to feed, and can steal Beast Lairs. They have their own set of powers. I haven't read the whole thing yet, so there might be more new stuff.

    There's also a bit of general advice on how to run Heroes and Beasts as antagonists.

    There aren't any new Families or Atavisms (not that I've noticed on the latter, at least), but there will be two new Families in the Beast Players Guide, as well as whole load of new powers.



    Sam Young | Vampires ruin everything freelancer

    VtR: Curses of Caine in Blood and SmokeTricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: The CabinActual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
    I podcast: The Breakup, a podcast about destroying the things you love

    Comment


    • #3
      There aren't any new mechanics, none for players anyway. There are a handful of new Hero Gifts, along with rules for a type of monster called the Insatiable. Like all Night Horrors books, it's primarily a collection of interesting antagonists that a Storyteller can use. Most of the characters are well-written and nuanced, in my opinion, though for some reason the introduction to each section uses a lot of prescriptive language and sometimes makes too many assumptions about the game you're playing. I would say it's worth it if you're going to be Storytelling Beast and want some readymade ideas, while as a player it would be mainly helpful for mining for inspiration for your character.

      Comment


      • #4
        First chapter is Heroes, it contains a few new Hero abilities and 11 Heroes. This is probably the easiest chapter to take advantage of, even for games outside of Beast. Some of the Heroes are already associated with other games, one being an employee of Cheiron, another a vampire hunter.

        The second is Beasts, with seven of them. Two Begotten, two Rampart, two Incarnate and one free. These, especially the Begotten, seem like they're more appropriate for Beast-only games though you could slip them in other places. The Incarnates and Rampant could fit anywhere, of course. There's no new Atavisms or families, it's more Immortal Sinners than Wicked Dead.

        Third and final chapter introduces the Insatiable, 'Beasts' of fears of primeval times before humanity made much of a dent in the world. They are, basically, Beasts without as much of the human element. Still normally in human form, they don't have natural access to Lairs and can instead steal them from others, but can also expose their monstrous form more fully in the world than Beasts can. Instead of Families, they have Moments, Clashing Faults, Freezing Hell, Molten Earth, Primordial Seas, and Void. They have a few new abilities called Esurients, though those powers are simply described. There's six individuals written up. They're pretty good for strange antagonists against any game, one of them is effectively the Apex Predator in their city, seems based off of Grendel. That said I'd hesitate before putting them in human or even hunter, as their powers are very powerful, and they have Atavisms and Nightmares which are also very powerful.

        I'd say it's useful for ideas, or outright taking things, which as far as I know is what it's there for. I don't really see it as very entertaining or preachy at all, it does sort of set a dark mood over Chronicles, which is fitting.

        I'd say it's definitely worth having if you like Beast. If you're of the sort that, for whatever reason, can't stand when people even mention Beast, you should probably avoid it. But if you run a variety of Chronicles of Darkness games the characters within could be used elsewhere, as noted before, so it's even worth it as a 'crossover' book, which I believe was the point. The characters inside would certainly surprise many unfamiliar with Beast. I think you would need Beast core to run it, but I believe the Kickstarter still has the mechanics available, and though I won't swear to it I imagine the relevant mechanics you'd need to make a Heroic, Beastly or Insatiable antagonist in a non-Beast game probably haven't changed too much.
        Last edited by nofather; 01-14-2017, 04:58 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Yossarian View Post

          There are a few new Anathemas and Gifts for Heroes, as well as several example Heroes. There are also example antagonist Beasts who've attained their Inheritance. Finally, there's a new type of creature called Insatiables, who are pseudo-Beasts who reflect fears from before humanity, and who claim to be birthed from something other than the Dark Mother. They kill mortals to feed, and can steal Beast Lairs. They have their own set of powers. I haven't read the whole thing yet, so there might be more new stuff.

          There's also a bit of general advice on how to run Heroes and Beasts as antagonists.

          There aren't any new Families or Atavisms (not that I've noticed on the latter, at least), but there will be two new Families in the Beast Players Guide, as well as whole load of new powers.
          Can you tell me a bit more about their advice on running heroes? Was it a different approach than in the core book? In the core they assumed the heroes were awful people.


          Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
            There aren't any new mechanics, none for players anyway. There are a handful of new Hero Gifts, along with rules for a type of monster called the Insatiable. Like all Night Horrors books, it's primarily a collection of interesting antagonists that a Storyteller can use. Most of the characters are well-written and nuanced, in my opinion, though for some reason the introduction to each section uses a lot of prescriptive language and sometimes makes too many assumptions about the game you're playing. I would say it's worth it if you're going to be Storytelling Beast and want some readymade ideas, while as a player it would be mainly helpful for mining for inspiration for your character.
            Thanks, can you give me a quick rundown on the heroes in the book?


            Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

            Comment


            • #7
              Reposted from another forum

              The book is separated in three sections: Heroes, Beasts and the Insatiables.

              The Heroes can easily be restatted as Slashers for an HTV game and include
              • A youtube star who uses her channel to direct other Heroes to Beasts (Internet based Slasher or Hunter anyone)
              • A Hunter turned Heroe with a good network and talismans
              • A bomb-maker and trapper who can be a good antagonist for other gamelines
              • A Proximus who is able to eat souls and regurgitate them to heal soul loss (She is definitevely appearing in my next Mage game, the concept is neatt)
              • Another star who masquerades her hunt as a reality tv show (could use as a Banisher)
              • A would be superhero prowling the night. (This one is at least an attempt to adress what modern heroes are)
              • A psychatrist seeking to understand the world of dreams (useful as an Hunter antagonist for Astral-focused Mages or Changelings)
              • A single-mother house-cleaner using what secrets she discovers to protect her housing block.
              • A sailor who hunt Beast on the sea because he perceives their presence as storm noises (Replace Beasts by Magees and you could have an interesting Banisher)
              • A serial killer who genuinely tries to do good.
              • A Hero working for the Cheiron Group
              Most of these are sympathetic and it's suggested they could do good or are indeed doing good and just are a danger to the PC's. Which if you do like me and impose on the group not-crappy Hungers could be good.

              Indeed the only outright evil one is the bomb-make. Also interesingly those bolded are gay or bisexual.

              I'll say the section is worth it if only for the soul-eating, soul-healing Proximus (who still heals victims of soul-loss when she sees them) and the youtuber working as an indirect enemies

              Next section are the Beasts, which can be used as antagonists for other lines, they are all eminently punchable
              • An incarnate CEO pushing the firms of Zurich to more and more predatory behaviour
              • A wood-haunting Rampant, nothing to write about
              • A secret hunting Rampant Squid hunting through the Realms Invisible (Who says nice enounter for Mages in the Astral)
              • A water based Incarnate prone to cause storms and sink ships
              • A spider Unfettered punishing those with "dark secrets"
              • A lobbyist tempting those who oppose him to self-destruction
              • A Rampant policing a campus as an urban legen
              Then you have the Insatiables. As always there are some good ideas: The Insatiables are basically linked to the elements and their forms are not following human legends (which would be more interesting if most of the RMC had not Horrors not fitting with classic legends). Differences with Beasts include
              • No Astral Lair (although they can steal one from Beasts) but they can create Dens in the material world which they can control like Beasts control their Lairs
              • Elemental associations (Earth, Ice, Sea, Fire, Void)
              • Lovecraftian forms which, unlike Beasts, they can fully summon in the material realm
              • The Schism, some sort of Disquiet which warps the community around the Den in madness and nightmares
              • They must kill to eat and they are always hungry
              If you use Beasts as Antagonists, Insatiables have several advantages. They are linked to the material realm and can become huge monsters without going into the Astral. They have this "Primordial Horror" thing primed and yet some are at least subtle to be difficult to find. The Insatiables in the book are
              • A burning mob boss who forces you to fight his cronies even before you get to the "giant lava monster" stage
              • The aforementioned Blind Man, which now I think is meant to emulate the guy from Storm of the Century too, but is the most useless of the bunch
              • An ice girl who devours those who try to help her (Nice but don't scream Primordial Horror to me, that's basically a Yuki-onna)
              • The internet Insatiable, who by the way did not create GG but just has a cult in the same circles (Frankly I fail to see what the problem is. The Scientology is a Banisher Cult in the COD and nobody complains). An interesting take on the "unseen predator"
              • A monster-clown. Well at least it doesn't target children. Nice link though between his sea-assocaition and his habit to drown his prey in a crowd of people.
              • A cannibal everyoung boy who go to school, picks prey and attracts them in an underground place before devouring them. Classic
              So in my opinion it's a good Night Horrors books aka a source of antagonists. I cannot say how it compares to other Night Horrors books except it's not Grim Fears (but then Grim Fears was pretty much perfect), at it contains some "meh" monsters.

              Comment


              • #8
                DrivethruRPG has a Preview option that allows you to see the first few pages. In this book you only see the first part of the Introduction, but it's enough to see the Introduction's quick write-up of the Heroes.

                For what it's worth if anyone who has a say in things is listening, the Introductions to these books are usually incredibly informative, finding a way to have those in the Preview of DTRPG, so far the only way to really get the game, would probably help a lot.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  First chapter is Heroes, it contains a few new Hero abilities and 11 Heroes. This is probably the easiest chapter to take advantage of, even for games outside of Beast. Some of the Heroes are already associated with other games, one being an employee of Cheiron, another a vampire hunter.

                  The second is Beasts, with seven of them. Two Begotten, two Rampart, two Incarnate and one free. These, especially the Begotten, seem like they're more appropriate for Beast-only games though you could slip them in other places. The Incarnates and Rampant could fit anywhere, of course. There's no new Atavisms or families, it's more Immortal Sinners than Wicked Dead.

                  Third and final chapter introduces the Insatiable, 'Beasts' of fears of primeval times before humanity made much of a dent in the world. They are, basically, Beasts without as much of the human element. Still normally in human form, they don't have natural access to Lairs and can instead steal them from others, but can also expose their monstrous form more fully in the world than Beasts can. Instead of Families, they have Moments, Clashing Faults, Freezing Hell, Molten Earth, Primordial Seas, and Void. They have a few new abilities called Esurients, though those powers are simply described. There's six individuals written up. They're pretty good for strange antagonists against any game, one of them is effectively the Apex Predator in their city, seems based off of Grendel. That said I'd hesitate before putting them in human or even hunter, as their powers are very powerful, and they have Atavisms and Nightmares which are also very powerful.

                  I'd say it's useful for ideas, or outright taking things, which as far as I know is what it's there for. I don't really see it as very entertaining or preachy at all, it does sort of set a dark mood over Chronicles, which is fitting.

                  I'd say it's definitely worth having if you like Beast. If you're of the sort that, for whatever reason, can't stand when people even mention Beast, you should probably avoid it. But if you run a variety of Chronicles of Darkness games the characters within could be used elsewhere, as noted before, so it's even worth it as a 'crossover' book, which I believe was the point. The characters inside would certainly surprise many unfamiliar with Beast. I think you would need Beast core to run it, but I believe the Kickstarter still has the mechanics available, and though I won't swear to it I imagine the relevant mechanics you'd need to make a Heroic, Beastly or Insatiable antagonist in a non-Beast game probably haven't changed too much.
                  Thankyou this was very helpful. I am interested in the insatiable. How difficult would it be to rebalance them as player options? What do Ensurients do?


                  Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ganonso View Post
                    Reposted from another forum

                    The book is separated in three sections: Heroes, Beasts and the Insatiables.

                    The Heroes can easily be restatted as Slashers for an HTV game and include
                    • A youtube star who uses her channel to direct other Heroes to Beasts (Internet based Slasher or Hunter anyone)
                    • A Hunter turned Heroe with a good network and talismans
                    • A bomb-maker and trapper who can be a good antagonist for other gamelines
                    • A Proximus who is able to eat souls and regurgitate them to heal soul loss (She is definitevely appearing in my next Mage game, the concept is neatt)
                    • Another star who masquerades her hunt as a reality tv show (could use as a Banisher)
                    • A would be superhero prowling the night. (This one is at least an attempt to adress what modern heroes are)
                    • A psychatrist seeking to understand the world of dreams (useful as an Hunter antagonist for Astral-focused Mages or Changelings)
                    • A single-mother house-cleaner using what secrets she discovers to protect her housing block.
                    • A sailor who hunt Beast on the sea because he perceives their presence as storm noises (Replace Beasts by Magees and you could have an interesting Banisher)
                    • A serial killer who genuinely tries to do good.
                    • A Hero working for the Cheiron Group
                    Most of these are sympathetic and it's suggested they could do good or are indeed doing good and just are a danger to the PC's. Which if you do like me and impose on the group not-crappy Hungers could be good.

                    Indeed the only outright evil one is the bomb-make. Also interesingly those bolded are gay or bisexual.

                    I'll say the section is worth it if only for the soul-eating, soul-healing Proximus (who still heals victims of soul-loss when she sees them) and the youtuber working as an indirect enemies

                    Next section are the Beasts, which can be used as antagonists for other lines, they are all eminently punchable
                    • An incarnate CEO pushing the firms of Zurich to more and more predatory behaviour
                    • A wood-haunting Rampant, nothing to write about
                    • A secret hunting Rampant Squid hunting through the Realms Invisible (Who says nice enounter for Mages in the Astral)
                    • A water based Incarnate prone to cause storms and sink ships
                    • A spider Unfettered punishing those with "dark secrets"
                    • A lobbyist tempting those who oppose him to self-destruction
                    • A Rampant policing a campus as an urban legen
                    Then you have the Insatiables. As always there are some good ideas: The Insatiables are basically linked to the elements and their forms are not following human legends (which would be more interesting if most of the RMC had not Horrors not fitting with classic legends). Differences with Beasts include
                    • No Astral Lair (although they can steal one from Beasts) but they can create Dens in the material world which they can control like Beasts control their Lairs
                    • Elemental associations (Earth, Ice, Sea, Fire, Void)
                    • Lovecraftian forms which, unlike Beasts, they can fully summon in the material realm
                    • The Schism, some sort of Disquiet which warps the community around the Den in madness and nightmares
                    • They must kill to eat and they are always hungry
                    If you use Beasts as Antagonists, Insatiables have several advantages. They are linked to the material realm and can become huge monsters without going into the Astral. They have this "Primordial Horror" thing primed and yet some are at least subtle to be difficult to find. The Insatiables in the book are
                    • A burning mob boss who forces you to fight his cronies even before you get to the "giant lava monster" stage
                    • The aforementioned Blind Man, which now I think is meant to emulate the guy from Storm of the Century too, but is the most useless of the bunch
                    • An ice girl who devours those who try to help her (Nice but don't scream Primordial Horror to me, that's basically a Yuki-onna)
                    • The internet Insatiable, who by the way did not create GG but just has a cult in the same circles (Frankly I fail to see what the problem is. The Scientology is a Banisher Cult in the COD and nobody complains). An interesting take on the "unseen predator"
                    • A monster-clown. Well at least it doesn't target children. Nice link though between his sea-assocaition and his habit to drown his prey in a crowd of people.
                    • A cannibal everyoung boy who go to school, picks prey and attracts them in an underground place before devouring them. Classic
                    So in my opinion it's a good Night Horrors books aka a source of antagonists. I cannot say how it compares to other Night Horrors books except it's not Grim Fears (but then Grim Fears was pretty much perfect), at it contains some "meh" monsters.
                    Great detail in your post. You may have have me leaning towards spending some money.


                    Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nofather View Post
                      DrivethruRPG has a Preview option that allows you to see the first few pages. In this book you only see the first part of the Introduction, but it's enough to see the Introduction's quick write-up of the Heroes.

                      For what it's worth if anyone who has a say in things is listening, the Introductions to these books are usually incredibly informative, finding a way to have those in the Preview of DTRPG, so far the only way to really get the game, would probably help a lot.
                      Yeah Onyx Path should make sure to have the table of contents and the introduction viewible for free, maybe dtrpg doesn't allow it or aomething. Seems like a no brainer.


                      Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                        Thankyou this was very helpful. I am interested in the insatiable. How difficult would it be to rebalance them as player options?
                        Not hard. You'd have to take away the Moment bonus, which are really powerful. You wouldn't have to, but you'd probably want to. A lot of their monstrousness is kind of informed. 'They don't care about people,' is easily changed. You could keep the Subverting of Lairs and the Schism, which is similar to Disquiet but less intricate.

                        What do Ensurients do?
                        They're kind of like Atavisms, I suppose, most involve their body doing something. They tend towards being really powerful but you could either remove it outright and just give them Atavisms and Nightmares, or tone them down a bit.

                        Here's two from the book. This is Cast Aside, 'The Insatiable’s limbs grow suddenly, either becoming massively muscled or bending in ways that maximize his ability to throw others. The Insatiable spends a point of Satiety to let him choose to inflict the Staggered Tilt instead of inflicting damage on a successful melee or brawling attack. The opponent is staggered for one round per damage the Insatiable would have dealt with his attack.'

                        And this is Obedience, 'Not all Insatiable like to remain hidden, and some are able to adapt and manipulate mortals into serving their needs. An Insatiable knows that if she operates openly, she is at risk — not just from Beasts, but also from other supernatural creatures. The Insatiable has developed a means to manipulate humans and get them to act in her stead. Whether it is by releasing pheromones that manipulate their senses or by direct psychic control, the Insatiable is able to use the effects of her Schism to make humans more loyal to her.
                        Each week an Insatiable may spend 5 points of Satiety minus the Schism’s rating (to a minimum of 1) to force humans who hear her commands to obey her. Humans may roll Resolve + Composure to resist the effects of this power but are at a -1 penalty for each level of the Schism’s rating. The effects of this power last for one week per level of the Schism.'

                        If this is posting too much, I can edit it.

                        Originally posted by K9ine View Post
                        Yeah Onyx Path should make sure to have the table of contents and the introduction viewible for free, maybe dtrpg doesn't allow it or aomething. Seems like a no brainer.
                        Offhand I imagine DTRPG just shows the first 10% of the book, maybe with a cap for larger books. Exalted only shows the first 16 pages, which would be ~2%.

                        I think it's more a website thing than an Onyx Path thing.
                        Last edited by nofather; 01-14-2017, 05:48 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nofather View Post

                          Not hard. You'd have to take away the Moment bonus, which are really powerful. You wouldn't have to, but you'd probably want to. A lot of their monstrousness is kind of informed. 'They don't care about people,' is easily changed. You could keep the Subverting of Lairs and the Schism, which is similar to Disquiet but less intricate.



                          They're kind of like Atavisms, I suppose, most involve their body doing something. They tend towards being really powerful but you could either remove it outright and just give them Atavisms and Nightmares, or tone them down a bit.

                          Here's two from the book. This is Cast Aside, 'The Insatiable’s limbs grow suddenly, either becoming massively muscled or bending in ways that maximize his ability to throw others. The Insatiable spends a point of Satiety to let him choose to inflict the Staggered Tilt instead of inflicting damage on a successful melee or brawling attack. The opponent is staggered for one round per damage the Insatiable would have dealt with his attack.'

                          And this is Obedience, 'Not all Insatiable like to remain hidden, and some are able to adapt and manipulate mortals into serving their needs. An Insatiable knows that if she operates openly, she is at risk — not just from Beasts, but also from other supernatural creatures. The Insatiable has developed a means to manipulate humans and get them to act in her stead. Whether it is by releasing pheromones that manipulate their senses or by direct psychic control, the Insatiable is able to use the effects of her Schism to make humans more loyal to her.
                          Each week an Insatiable may spend 5 points of Satiety minus the Schism’s rating (to a minimum of 1) to force humans who hear her commands to obey her. Humans may roll Resolve + Composure to resist the effects of this power but are at a -1 penalty for each level of the Schism’s rating. The effects of this power last for one week per level of the Schism.'

                          If this is posting too much, I can edit it.



                          Offhand I imagine DTRPG just shows the first 10% of the book, maybe with a cap for larger books. Exalted only shows the first 16 pages, which would be ~2%.

                          I think it's more a website thing than an Onyx Path thing.
                          Interesting. I like the idea of the atavism-like powers being physical instead of invisible. Well I guess you sold me. Feel free to post as much as you like. I am sure others will find this thread helpful for their buying decisions.


                          Offense is rarely given, but often taken.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by K9ine View Post

                            Can you tell me a bit more about their advice on running heroes? Was it a different approach than in the core book? In the core they assumed the heroes were awful people.
                            The advice comes down to giving Heroes a lot of different reasons for doing what they do: fear, torment from the Primordial Dream, glory, inability to stop, etc. Heroes are presented as a bit tragic, in that they Hunger like Beasts, but they can't see their Hunger in any context beyond a certain narrative. The example characters also flesh out what kinds of Heroes Beasts might encounter. Not all of them are horrible people, but none of them are capable of seeing outside their own narrow worldviews. One is a victims' advocate who can't cope with her guilt, and doesn't see that she's being used; one is a serial killer who prefers to channel his urges on Beasts instead of humans (mostly).



                            Sam Young | Vampires ruin everything freelancer

                            VtR: Curses of Caine in Blood and SmokeTricks of the DamnedBtP: Secrets of VancouverCofD: The CabinActual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                            I podcast: The Breakup, a podcast about destroying the things you love

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ganonso View Post
                              Reposted from another forum

                              The book is separated in three sections: Heroes, Beasts and the Insatiables.

                              The Heroes can easily be restatted as Slashers for an HTV game and include
                              • A youtube star who uses her channel to direct other Heroes to Beasts (Internet based Slasher or Hunter anyone)
                              • A Hunter turned Heroe with a good network and talismans
                              • A bomb-maker and trapper who can be a good antagonist for other gamelines
                              • A Proximus who is able to eat souls and regurgitate them to heal soul loss (She is definitevely appearing in my next Mage game, the concept is neatt)
                              • Another star who masquerades her hunt as a reality tv show (could use as a Banisher)
                              • A would be superhero prowling the night. (This one is at least an attempt to adress what modern heroes are)
                              • A psychatrist seeking to understand the world of dreams (useful as an Hunter antagonist for Astral-focused Mages or Changelings)
                              • A single-mother house-cleaner using what secrets she discovers to protect her housing block.
                              • A sailor who hunt Beast on the sea because he perceives their presence as storm noises (Replace Beasts by Magees and you could have an interesting Banisher)
                              • A serial killer who genuinely tries to do good.
                              • A Hero working for the Cheiron Group
                              Most of these are sympathetic and it's suggested they could do good or are indeed doing good and just are a danger to the PC's. Which if you do like me and impose on the group not-crappy Hungers could be good.


                              So in my opinion it's a good Night Horrors books aka a source of antagonists. I cannot say how it compares to other Night Horrors books except it's not Grim Fears (but then Grim Fears was pretty much perfect), at it contains some "meh" monsters.
                              I think you've just sold me on the book. I'm someone who likes the Heroes concept even more than the Beasts, so this book would be right up my alley. Especially since I think it could get a TON of use in a Hunter the Vigil game.


                              PENTEX SUCKS.

                              I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X