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New Let's Read of Conquering Heroes...by a Sour Unchained (other RPers appreciated!)

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  • New Let's Read of Conquering Heroes...by a Sour Unchained (other RPers appreciated!)

    You, if you've been hanging around the Hunter forum last year, may know that I wrote an in-character Let's Read of the Horror Recognition Guide. Except not by a hunter, but by a somewhat hotheaded and arrogant demon who called himself Sir Night, as part of his scheme to form his own Hunter Conspiracy, with various other supernatural denizens of Earth and hunters chiming in.

    Well, I loved it so much I'm doing it again, as Sir Night Compiles Conquering Heroes, in which our British infernal is dragged by the ear into helping a brood of Seattle Beasts understand a motley set of Heroes they fear-after he forced them to allow him to post several Beasts he regards as a threat to public health and mental safety, as he was originally an angel meant to guard the dreams of children. He really does not like literal living nightmares, not one bit. (EDIT: And just so you know, he's never really talked to one beyond what led to a tragedy that was partly his fault, so if he comes off as bigoted and biased-he is, all he has right now is his own prejudices, and he knows it.)

    In other words, I examine each entry in the book as a profile Sir Night is compiling, all while Null Snyper quietly watches and hatches her own plots.

    Feel free to join in as the counterpart to the non-Kin's own cynicism about Begotten!

    EDIT: Just to be clear, Sir Night here is a callback right now to where I was before a long series of revisions and clarifications. He currently thinks Beasts are self-justifying abusers for reasons that may or may not be valid, depending on whether you agree with a set of frequent criticisms levied at Beast. I am trying to write him as angry, but open to other voices-only not in his IC text right now for story reasons. If you have a problem with how angry and caustic he gets, let me know OOC, PEACH and all that. In fact, I welcome in-universe call-outs of his temper; he's supposed to come off as ignorant and prejudiced; he needs a swift kick in the ass sometimes.
    Last edited by Leliel; 01-15-2017, 02:11 PM.



  • #2
    Sir Night is either full of shit or operating on faulty information as concerns the Begotten's natural social lubricant. A Good impression barring extenuating circumstances is bizarre insofar as being more likely to do something for any particular stranger is bizarre — if a Beast beats someone to a pulp in front of you and you're a monster, you're not going to feel more charitable about the fact that they just beat someone to a pulp in front of you; the fact that they just beat someone to a pulp in front of you is going to sour the monstrous charisma they'd otherwise benefit from, unless you're the sort of person for which extreme violence is not an immediate deal-breaker.

    He's also either overselling the predominant Begotten cultural praxis (and reading it ass-backwards, to boot) or working with the most transparent scarecrow brood this side of a hay-baler. "In the process of avoiding neglect of your Hunger, remember that your actions have consequences and try to ensure that at least some of those consequences are good" is not "The beatings will continue until performance improves, so this is for your own good."

    There are doubtless at least a couple Messengers who could tell him why poisoning the package in this manner is a foul and fruitless endeavor — not least of which being that peddling blatant lies about a culture is a very good way to get tagged as the boy who cried "wolf" — but even without that kind of specialist experience it's probably unwise for him to pull a repeat of the time where he thought werewolves emitted a demon-dumbing field because he forgot how to read a dossier.

    It's a book for a gameline whose main characters are chunks of the universal human unconscious — the importance of not passing tainted memes down the chain should go without saying.


    Resident Sanguinary Analyst
    Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Satchel View Post
      Sir Night is either full of shit or operating on faulty information as concerns the Begotten's natural social lubricant. A Good impression barring extenuating circumstances is bizarre insofar as being more likely to do something for any particular stranger is bizarre — if a Beast beats someone to a pulp in front of you and you're a monster, you're not going to feel more charitable about the fact that they just beat someone to a pulp in front of you; the fact that they just beat someone to a pulp in front of you is going to sour the monstrous charisma they'd otherwise benefit from, unless you're the sort of person for which extreme violence is not an immediate deal-breaker.

      He's also either overselling the predominant Begotten cultural praxis (and reading it ass-backwards, to boot) or working with the most transparent scarecrow brood this side of a hay-baler. "In the process of avoiding neglect of your Hunger, remember that your actions have consequences and try to ensure that at least some of those consequences are good" is not "The beatings will continue until performance improves, so this is for your own good."

      There are doubtless at least a couple Messengers who could tell him why poisoning the package in this manner is a foul and fruitless endeavor — not least of which being that peddling blatant lies about a culture is a very good way to get tagged as the boy who cried "wolf" — but even without that kind of specialist experience it's probably unwise for him to pull a repeat of the time where he thought werewolves emitted a demon-dumbing field because he forgot how to read a dossier.

      It's a book for a gameline whose main characters are chunks of the universal human unconscious — the importance of not passing tainted memes down the chain should go without saying.

      Yes, that's kind of the point. His character sheet lists "Judgemental" as a Vice for a reason (admittedly, it's private, but it informs me). The other idea is that the client chose stealing the note he left on a grave precisely because it'd get his attention (though I left it blank in case someone wants to RP that Collector and has a different reason), but he's pissed off about it. He's not in a good mood and he (by his own admittance) understands little about Beasts, plus there is the understated thing from the previous thread that he's transferring some of his own guilt about the Night Goblin on Beasts (and the intent was always that his "therapist" badly misunderstood her patient, because he lied to her). The irony is that he's suffering from the same black and white views Heroes are; I plan on him realizing exactly why that's a bad thing somewhere around Dr. Stone or Emily Esser, depending on how annoying people find his cynicism.

      Bit of a plotline spoiler ahead:


      The third idea is that, as mentioned, he's given up on internet security as being his forte, but he's realized he's good at tracking intrusions. What you are seeing is two parts trollbait for Null Snyper when she inevitably breaks in, because he noticed her stalking the brood and took one look at her storied history; nobody, in his estimation, deserves her attentions, though he thinks she's "just" a Slasher right now. In fact, the reason he mentioned his beau is that she's willingly serving as an "easy target" for her to focus her trolls on while he researches her.
      Last edited by Leliel; 01-15-2017, 01:58 AM.


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      • #4
        Oh,I'm looking forward to this.


        Maggie Carroll
        Onyx Path Freelancer & Developer
        Working On: Book of Freeholds
        Worked On: V20 TMR, Demon STG, C20, Conquering Heroes, Building A Legend

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        • #5
          Joining in as Charlies Garcia, Anakim Tyrannt hollywood big shot and complete douche. He has some insights on Candy Rasmussen (via his media connections), , Adam Cuttler (after encountering him while helping James Cameron on the filming of Titanic) and Grace Teller (due being part of the alliance of Hollywood supernaturals working to take her down).
          Last edited by The young man in the cafe; 01-15-2017, 05:01 AM.


          My Savannah Setting can be found here

          My heroes as monster tamers rules can be found here

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          • #6
            Something that comes across as very... jarring... is this line:

            "and a bizarre effect on "Kin" that, to be frank, is mental influence I am immune to (a Beast exudes a field that makes them seem like a potential ally to every esohuman alive, no matter their moral opinions or, I will admit, prejudices normally)"

            Beasts don't do this. I'm not sure either on how or why a Demon would think a Beast could do this. If a Beast was using the Alien Allure Atavism, they can possibly detect that because it is a supernatural power that is being activated. But Thicker Than Water is pretty much on the level of the Striking Looks merit, I think.

            Without some basis given as to why a Demon would think that what they're witnessing of Thicker Than Water in action as being a supernatural power being applied (and I can't see why a Demon would think so, considering nothing gets activated and Thicker Than Water in no way changes the behavior of another character), it comes across as being very meta and authorial bias. And I find that to be off putting, personally.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Paradim View Post
              it comes across as being very meta and authorial bias. And I find that to be off putting, personally.
              It's also a wrong reading of how thicker than water works. It doesn't actually directly increase your chances of being seen as an ally, as it neither provides a dicebonus nor opens doors. If your actions beforehand make you fail the "is goal you want to achieve through this Social Maneuvering attempt realistically achievable through mundane interaction" step then Thicker than Water does nothing at all, because the Social Maneuvering attempt never gets to the step where Impression levels would be applied.
              It only let's you reduce the time between dicerolls, and even then only if your goal has been deemed realistic by the ST.
              It does indirectly increases your chances of succeeding because it removes the need for some kind of mundane action to increase the impression level, which reduces the chances of some event interrupting your Social Maneuvering attempt. Which is negligable, because increasing impression by one step via mundane needs doesn't even necessarily require a diceroll


              My custom legacy (2e)- The Disciples of Rathma - Life/Death focused Moros/Thyrsus Legacy, comments appreciated

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Paradim View Post
                Something that comes across as very... jarring... is this line:

                "and a bizarre effect on "Kin" that, to be frank, is mental influence I am immune to (a Beast exudes a field that makes them seem like a potential ally to every esohuman alive, no matter their moral opinions or, I will admit, prejudices normally)"

                Beasts don't do this. I'm not sure either on how or why a Demon would think a Beast could do this. If a Beast was using the Alien Allure Atavism, they can possibly detect that because it is a supernatural power that is being activated. But Thicker Than Water is pretty much on the level of the Striking Looks merit, I think.

                Without some basis given as to why a Demon would think that what they're witnessing of Thicker Than Water in action as being a supernatural power being applied (and I can't see why a Demon would think so, considering nothing gets activated and Thicker Than Water in no way changes the behavior of another character), it comes across as being very meta and authorial bias. And I find that to be off putting, personally.

                You're right; It is IC authorial bias. Sir Night is terrified of permanent behavior alteration too; I am writing him currently as a person who sees only the worst in Begotten, and given how he knows how he knows how some emotional influence works, he lept to that conclusion. Again, it doesn't help that he's pissed off at his client.

                Still, you did note that he shouldn't be aware of TTW unless directly told, and he has a more personal reason anyway to dislike their culture (the Night Goblin fiasco). I am editing that out.
                Last edited by Leliel; 01-15-2017, 01:35 PM.


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                • #9
                  Added a bit to the OP about how I'm RPing Sir Night; he is not supposed to come off as an author avatar, but a misguided individual who only knows the worst about something he doesn't understand and is deliberately dialing up his acerbic nature for (SPOILERS).

                  Suffice to say, I am perfectly fine with people attacking him for his bigotry and temper. That's actually what I want to happen, both because he's planning on it and I want to deflate his pride a bit. He's learned a lesson from the first thread, but he's still rather big-headed.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leliel View Post
                    You're right; It is IC authorial bias. Sir Night is terrified of permanent behavior alteration too; I am writing him currently as a person who sees only the worst in Begotten, and given how he knows how he knows how some emotional influence works, he lept to that conclusion. Again, it doesn't help that he's pissed off at his client.

                    Still, you did note that he shouldn't be aware of TTW unless directly told, and he has a more personal reason anyway to dislike their culture (the Night Goblin fiasco). I am editing that out.
                    TLDR: Thanks, it helps a lot with the fiction. ^.^ Read on if you like further explanation, or you can stop right here.

                    I think it reads better without that in there. To be clear, I'm fine with the character being pissed or antagonistic or disliking their culture (what there is of it, I guess). It's just that Thicker Than Water is about as "mental influence" as wearing a little black dress and doing your hair up for your date. The Beast isn't actually doing anything to other supernatural creatures they meet. They just have a.... unexplainable charisma. Some "je ne sais quoi" that appeals to most monsters. And as far as I can tell, there's nothing that can pick up on it.

                    How do you know that the Beast isn't just naturally charismatic? How many Beasts has the character met while they're interacting with other monsters specifically for their first time? There's no explanation for it, for how he'd know of Thicker Than Water, no explanation of it being something he's somehow sensed.

                    And it's very clear he's talking about Thicker Than Water, which is something I'm not even sure Beasts are aware they have. If he discussed witnessing a Beast being able to wrap another supernatural monster around their finger... That's incredibly different. He could see Alien Allure being used, or other Atavisms. Or witness Nightmares being used that make a target more susceptible to social influencing. He might not understand what he's witnessing, but other supernatural creatures can notice when an Atavism is being used, and if you're watching carefully, you can catch a Beast deliberately making eye contact or touching to know a Nightmare is being used. And those are explicitly supernatural powers being utilized when means stuff that detects them will make you very aware of it, if you've got access to such senses.

                    So it was jarring, because I couldn't see any reason that the character would know of Thicker Than Water other than the author of the fiction (you, specifically) deliberately inserting your knowledge of the Beast: The Primordial text into the fiction, which is too meta for me to really ignore. And to be honest, focusing on solid reasons for him to have for disliking Beasts on the onset makes a lot more sense, is supported by what he's experienced and gives the reader better understanding to empathize with his viewpoint. It's stronger now, I think.

                    ....to be honest, I really don't think even Beasts know they have Thicker Than Water helping them. How could they know? O.o

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leliel View Post
                      Added a bit to the OP about how I'm RPing Sir Night; he is not supposed to come off as an author avatar, but a misguided individual who only knows the worst about something he doesn't understand and is deliberately dialing up his acerbic nature for (SPOILERS).

                      Suffice to say, I am perfectly fine with people attacking him for his bigotry and temper. That's actually what I want to happen, both because he's planning on it and I want to deflate his pride a bit. He's learned a lesson from the first thread, but he's still rather big-headed.
                      Thing is? I can't say he's wrong. Beasts are monsters, through and through. Whether he's misguided, being acerbic, has a temper, is a bigot or being big-headed, Beasts are pretty awful by their very nature.

                      That's something I find really compelling about them. "What is better? To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

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                      • #12
                        I like your IC read, so I don't want derail this too much into Thicker than Water, but I think it's important to remember that changing impression levels doesn't change how much someone likes you. It just changes how often you can try to talk someone into doing something before they start to find it annoying and stop listening.
                        It's basically a "Beasts know how to talk with other supernaturals without being an annoying git" power, and is more adequately explained by instinctual knowledge of how to approach others than any active behavioral influence. As Paradim noted, in effect it's basically equal to knowing how to dress for an occasion.


                        My custom legacy (2e)- The Disciples of Rathma - Life/Death focused Moros/Thyrsus Legacy, comments appreciated

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joker View Post
                          I like your IC read, so I don't want derail this too much into Thicker than Water, but I think it's important to remember that changing impression levels doesn't change how much someone likes you. It just changes how often you can try to talk someone into doing something before they start to find it annoying and stop listening.
                          It's basically a "Beasts know how to talk with other supernaturals without being an annoying git" power, and is more adequately explained by instinctual knowledge of how to approach others than any active behavioral influence. As Paradim noted, in effect it's basically equal to knowing how to dress for an occasion.

                          Ah, Thanks, I was always kind of confused about that. I knew it was really a "Don't shoot, don't shoot!" power, but not the specifics.


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leliel View Post


                            Ah, Thanks, I was always kind of confused about that. I knew it was really a "Don't shoot, don't shoot!" power, but not the specifics.

                            Wouldn't even call it that, to be honest. The Storyteller gets full discretion on what impression level the supernatural being has, even taking Thicker Than Water into account. If the first meeting a Beast has with a werewolf is when the Beast is covered in the blood of one of the werewolf's human packmates, the Beast is starting off with a pretty shitty impression, Thicker Than Water be damned.

                            Ultimately, it's just that if everything is equal, if the Beast approaches the supernatural being with a respectful manner, not in a hostile manner to the supernatural being or those the supernatural being thinks of as friends or allies, then the Beast makes a good impression (or average impression for a mage or other more human kin). This is useful because first contact with a supernatural being can be very touchy, considering the Beast is a stranger who clearly knows something of what the supernatural being is.

                            Beyond that? It's up to the Beast.

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                            • #15
                              Okay if I chime in with a character from a homebrew splat (a Grace of Mirrors, from Princess)? If not, I've got a couple of alternative ideas.

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