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"Yes, but what do you actually DO with a Lair?"

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  • "Yes, but what do you actually DO with a Lair?"

    Hulloo. I've sorta fallen in love with Beast: The Primordial. It's such a cool concept, and I love the presentation of it. The feel of it is very unique and makes me flow over with ideas for Beasts and their Lairs...but I'm also having trouble grounding that stuff in gameplay. Like, not so much the mechanics of it, but when you'd use the Primordial Pathways, when you'd actually bring victims to your Lair...stuff like that. So I was wondering if I could get some advice! Thanks in advance!
    • Just how often does a Beast physically go to their Lair? And what do they do there, when not defending it against an attack or using it to travel someplace? The book plays up the Lair as essential to the Beast's identity, powers and defense, but I'm not sure how much there is about what you actually get up to while in one...
    • The book describes a few sample hunts, where Beasts seek out their targets in the material world in order to satisfy their Hungers. It also mentions low-Satiety Beast's Horrors getting Hungry and wandering into nearby dreams to feed on sleeping mortals. Aaaaand it hints at Beasts sometimes luring mortals physically into their Lairs in order to hunt and feed? I'm trying to figure out just how common each of these are. Can Beasts feed primarily through people's dreams? Or do the have to do it in the physical realm, and only the rogue, starving Horror can do the Freddy Kreuger thing and wander through a neighborhood's sleeping populace, feeding at will?
    • What form does the Heart Chamber take? It's explicitly said in the book that the Heart is the only Chamber not based on a real place...so what does it actually look like? I'm assuming it's sort of an archetypal connection of the Lair's traits...like, if my traits are Maze and Fog, then my Heart Chamber can take the form of a labyrinthine, primeval forest, blanketed in suffocating fog and gnarled trunks that reduce visibility and path-finding to almost zero. Then, if I want to add a new Chamber, I have to find a real place that's similar enough to that...if not a real forest that's foggy and hard to navigate, then maybe an industrial site that's wrapped in smoke. Right? My assumption is that the Heart is meant to set the pattern, and then you sort of "collect" Chambers as trophies from your adventures (that also increase your power).
    • Speaking of, that's also how you add new traits, right? So, in that example above (the Maze/Fog Lair), and I added the industrial site as a new Chamber because the smoke resonated with my Fog trait, I could also claim...lessee...Thunderous from the roar of the machinery. So, I now have two Chambers in my Lair, connected by a Burrow - a foggy, maze-like forest and a deafening, smoky industrial zone. (in this case, I'd say the Burrow could be a railroad running through a tunnel, opening up to each Chamber on either end) Now I can invoke any (or all) of the three traits as part of my powers, right?
    That's all for now. It's late I'm tried. But I'm sure I'll come up with more later...

  • #2
    Oh, that is a lot to unpack. Random rabbling replies as follows.
    1. It varies, but remember the Lair is basically a part of the Beast's soul. If nothing else, the Lair is home, a place you can feel comfortable in. You even get to choose most of the chambers, taking their history and making it a part of you.
    2. Some options aren't always available; the Horror cannot hunt on it's own while you are Sated or higher, so yeah, Freddy is not a normal option. You normally have to arrange your hunts to take advantage of the die bonuses those other examples give you (+1 die if it takes place in a Lair, I think).
    3. The Heart Chamber draws just as much from the Horror as it does from the Lair traits. It is your centre, after all. It can vary dramatically, so i would not be setting hard limits on what it looks like. I would argue that it tends to be less material and more reflective of the emotions and concepts it represents. Like the Hisil in WtF or the Astral Realms from MtAw.
    4. Pretty much. I'd argue that 'natural evolutions' of pre-existing traits is also ok. Extreme Cold could let you add Slippery ice, for example.
    Last edited by FallenEco; 03-01-2017, 06:21 AM.


    Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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    • #3
      If you want to do freddy stuff when you're not low on satiety, you can use the Behold My True Form nightmare to attack people in their dreams.


      Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

      Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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      • #4
        In addition to the other things you mentioned a Lair is also a private sanctuary and a place to heal. Remember, you can spend Satiety to heal while merged with your Horror.

        Attacking people's dreams directly from the Lair is something only a starving Horror does, but you can set Nightmares to trigger only when the victim sleeps and feed that way, like Milo said.

        The Heart looks like whatever makes most sense for the kind of nightmare your Horror embodies. You add new Chambers that are at least tangentially related to that theme, but picking up new Traits isn't a direct function of the new chambers. You get more Traits as your Lair stat increases, and you can apply them to any of your existing Chambers as you decide. You can even turn your Traits off in a Chamber.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gellydog View Post
          Now I can invoke any (or all) of the three traits as part of my powers, right?
          To invoke those traits, one of them must be present already, e.g. use smoke grenades to create a dense Fog, then use that to invoke Thunderous.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Wormwood View Post

            To invoke those traits, one of them must be present already, e.g. use smoke grenades to create a dense Fog, then use that to invoke Thunderous.
            Alternately, you can use places that resemble the environments of your Chambers regardless of present Traits with a Willpower point and a roll that starts with a hefty penalty that decreases if you hunt well or often in that particular location.


            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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            • #7
              Satchel Right, I keep for getting about that cause i never make use of it. Maybe I should change that...

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              • #8
                Hi! So sorry for not getting back sooner. Thank you all for your answers! I'm still a little shaky on some of it...but I guess that's natural when we're talking about dreamscape representations of an individual's personal relationship to their monster soul.

                So, reading through the relevant text again, are all traits shared across all chambers? It's just the terrain/setting that changes? Like, let's say I've got two dots of Lair, and can therefore have three total Chambers along with three total Traits. I already have the Heart, which is a fetid swamp possessing the Traits "Undergrowth" and "Viscous" to represent the tangle of trees and vines and plants and the sucking, cloying mud and water that they grow in. (I'm a Gorgon; we love gross stuff)

                Now I want to add a second Chamber, and hopefully pick up a fun new Trait for my Lair. I have to start with somewhere that shares "at least one" Trait I've already got; in this case, let's say an abandoned hospital building where the roof has caved in and plants have started growing up through the floor (enough to be resonant with "Undergrowth"). In the course of play, I ran into some urban spelunkers checking out the old hospital, and got an exceptional success on one of my Nightmare rolls. This qualifies the place to become a Chamber! Yay! I can spend one Satiety and add the overgrown hospital as a new Chamber, connected to the Heart through a Burrow.

                Question: can I also pick a new Trait that resonates with that location, since I still have one "slot" left of my three total Traits? (in this case, I might pick "Decayed" because the hospital is falling down, or "Maze" because it's a big building that was hard to navigate before it went to pot) Follow-up: Do the non-shared traits ("Viscous" and "Maze/Decayed") then get cross-applied to both of my Chambers automatically (i.e., does the Heart swamp suddenly become harder to navigate, and does the new hospital start oozing), or is that something I get/have to decide myself?

                From there, it's basically more of the same: I still have one free Chamber slot, but no more Traits. That means I can add a new Chamber that resonates with any of the three Traits: I could pick a hedge maze (from "Maze"), a particularly dense greenhouse (from "Undergrowth") or a 90s-era Nickelodeon live-action set. (from "Evil Green Slime")

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gellydog View Post
                  Question: can I also pick a new Trait that resonates with that location, since I still have one "slot" left of my three total Traits?
                  Certainly, and in fact that's a good narrative-conscious approach to picking a new Trait.

                  Follow-up: Do the non-shared traits ("Viscous" and "Maze/Decayed") then get cross-applied to both of my Chambers automatically (i.e., does the Heart swamp suddenly become harder to navigate, and does the new hospital start oozing), or is that something I get/have to decide myself?
                  You can choose whether any of your Traits apply in any of your Chambers and to whom, but you're not actually required to have every Chamber contain every one of your Traits (or even a particular arrangement of them).


                  Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                  Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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