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Creating BtP Horrors

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  • Creating BtP Horrors

    I plan to run Astral story in Mage about monsters. I would probably use Horrors from Beast for that. But I looked over my BtP corebook and I do not seems to see rules for creating Horrors alone, not full Begotten characters. Am I missing something? Or should I use simply Goetia rules from Mage 2E? If going goetia route - What Rank levels would have BtP Horrors in Goetia system?


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  • #2
    You can start with the rules for the Unleashed Inheritance, and go from there. Maybe also give them a few Atavisms.


    Find my Homebrew Fangs of Mara 2ed update Here

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Teatime View Post
      You can start with the rules for the Unleashed Inheritance, and go from there. Maybe also give them a few Atavisms.
      Didn't you mean Unfettered? As Unleashed seems to give character full body monster - and I specificly looks for Goetia like things in Astral...

      Originally posted by 'BtP, p.21'
      Unleashed Inheritance: The Inheritance gained when a Beast undergoes Merger. This can occur when a Beast’s Lair is destroyed, or if the Beast wills it to happen. The Beast’s Horror merges bodily with the Beast’s human form and becomes an animalistic monster, lurking in some dark corner of the world until a Hero arrives to kill it.
      And this...

      Originally posted by 'BtP, p.21'
      Unfettered Inheritance: The Inheritance gained when the Beast undergoes Retreat. The Beast embarks on an astral journey and dies while in the Primordial Dream. The Beast’s Horror becomes a free-floating nightmare, a quasi-spirit haunting the dreamscape forever.
      Unfettered seems much more what I look for...

      Looked for the rules of Unfettered Beast and they seems to work rather straight forward:

      Originally posted by 'BtP, p.236'
      Rank: An Unfettered begins with Rank equal to the Beast’s Lair.
      Originally posted by 'BtP, p.236'
      Legend/Life: The Unfettered still has her Legend, but not Life, and regains Willpower as normal. As the Unfettered don’t need to sleep, they do not refresh Willpower through rest. She can, however, regain a Willpower point by indulging her Hunger. She does this in a manner similar to the “Inflicting
      Nightmares” section on p. 99, but her dice pool is Power + Rank – Composure instead.
      I suspect that Goetia-changed Beast will have Virtue and Vice instead of Life and Legend, but it's minor detail.

      Originally posted by 'BtP, p.236'
      Language: Unfettered do not speak or understand human languages, unless they retain some of their Beast’s intellect. Even then, their ability to use language is remedial at best.
      So not 'inteligent' Unfettered beasts or dragons that understand human language?

      Originally posted by 'BtP, p.236'
      Ban and Bane: The Unfettered Beast’s previous Hunger becomes her Ban, which is expressed as a compulsion. As the ephemeral embodiment of her Hunger, the Unfettered has no choice but to pursue it to the exclusion of all other concerns.
      Her last existing Anathema, if she has one, becomes her Bane. In the case where the Unfettered has no former Anathema, her Bane becomes something related to the circumstances of her death.
      Good for limiting Ban to Hungers. Anathema as Bane will probably become first thing I would choose for killing the Tytan.
      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 03-26-2017, 11:00 AM.


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      • #4
        How much Rank would have Goetia-Horrors shown in Inspirational Images For Beast topic? Like Rank circa 4, 6 or 8 they would have?


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        • #5
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          Didn't you mean Unfettered? As Unleashed seems to give character full body monster - and I specificly looks for Goetia like things in Astral...
          Damn it! I had one job!

          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          So not 'inteligent' Unfettered beasts or dragons that understand human language?
          Beast Horrors are creatures of Id, so human-level intelligence would be rather unusual. However, even the paragraph you quoted admits some can understand human language. You can have a Horror speak, but few would carry a complex conversation. However, they can easily repeat a single sentence to show how broken their minds are, or mimic what the PCs say to creep them out, or even respond with single words. If you commit to preserving the essence of the Horror, you can even give them genius-level intelligence and high eloquence, but the former will have to be in service of immediate gratification and the latter should feel off, somehow. Note that this allows for bargaining with the monster. If you have "Conquering Heroes" check the Empyrean Swimmer.

          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          How much Rank would have Goetia-Horrors shown in Inspirational Images For Beast topic? Like Rank circa 4, 6 or 8 they would have?
          I wouldn't necessarily connect the Horror's appearance to its Rank. Even the weak ones should look fearsome. Just give them the stats you need and let the players discover which deserve their appearance and which are cardboard cutouts.


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          • #6
            Originally posted by Teatime View Post
            Beast Horrors are creatures of Id, so human-level intelligence would be rather unusual. However, even the paragraph you quoted admits some can understand human language. You can have a Horror speak, but few would carry a complex conversation. However, they can easily repeat a single sentence to show how broken their minds are, or mimic what the PCs say to creep them out, or even respond with single words. If you commit to preserving the essence of the Horror, you can even give them genius-level intelligence and high eloquence, but the former will have to be in service of immediate gratification and the latter should feel off, somehow. Note that this allows for bargaining with the monster. If you have "Conquering Heroes" check the Empyrean Swimmer.
            Personally, I would say that Horrors run the full gamut of 'intelligence' from mindless beasts to Smaug to Skynet, but that it's not really intelligence so much as it is the appearance of intelligence. They can be cunning, but their cunning is solely for the sake of demonstrating that it can outthink you. Ultimately, a Horror's appearance of intelligence is much like it's appearance of having claws: They're just a mask, a way to express its essential fear.

            In a way, it's kind of like the Thinker-type powers from the web serial Worm. They don't really make their users more intelligent, they just make them better at faking it (e.g. Tattletale's super-intuition is a great deal like Eye of Heaven and parts of Mimir's Wisdom combined).


            Is it presumptuous of me to ask for alternating male/female pronouns?

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            • #7
              In other words, Horrors - in my eyes - aren't 'intelligent' so much as some of them 'have the ability to outwit you' or 'have the ability to perceive your weaknesses and twist their words like knives'.


              Is it presumptuous of me to ask for alternating male/female pronouns?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                In other words, Horrors - in my eyes - aren't 'intelligent' so much as some of them 'have the ability to outwit you' or 'have the ability to perceive your weaknesses and twist their words like knives'.
                The word you're looking for, for the record, is "cunning."


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                • #9
                  Yeah, it says a Beast who undergoes the Retreat becomes an ephemeral being and is treated as such (a lot of their template is switched out). So if you want to create something like that, then it's probably your best option.

                  And the Horror only retains their Beast's memories if they score an Exceptional Success during the Retreat, which means it's typically very rare.
                  Last edited by Nyrufa; 03-26-2017, 06:18 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Satchel View Post

                    The word you're looking for, for the record, is "cunning."
                    Not exactly. It's more like the way in which Cyclopean Strength allows you to lift heavy stuff without the other bonuses that would come with real super-strength. It's about what the Horror can do more than anything else.


                    Is it presumptuous of me to ask for alternating male/female pronouns?

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                    • #11
                      In my mind, at least, a Horror, on its own, is just an Astral Realms spirit embodying fear. A Horror fulfills one role really well, but is more like an automaton than an actual entity. Shadow Realm spirits, for example, know only those things related to their conceptual core---why would Horrors be any different?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Demigod Beast View Post
                        In my mind, at least, a Horror, on its own, is just an Astral Realms spirit embodying fear. A Horror fulfills one role really well, but is more like an automaton than an actual entity. Shadow Realm spirits, for example, know only those things related to their conceptual core---why would Horrors be any different?
                        Goetia are qualitatively different to the spirits of the Shadow. They're closer to human, and work on a human understanding of things. That's not to say that they can't be weird and alien - especially the ones from the Anima Mundi - but they're less conceptual and more archetypal than Shadow spirits.


                        Is it presumptuous of me to ask for alternating male/female pronouns?

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                        • #13
                          There are rules for dream form horrors in the core book of beast. P99

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                            I plan to run Astral story in Mage about monsters. I would probably use Horrors from Beast for that. But I looked over my BtP corebook and I do not seems to see rules for creating Horrors alone, not full Begotten characters. Am I missing something? Or should I use simply Goetia rules from Mage 2E? If going goetia route - What Rank levels would have BtP Horrors in Goetia system?


                            So, I was reading through my second edition rule book and found an entire section on the creation of generic horrors. It's even called Horrors, so thought I'd share it here.


                            It's on page 140

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nyrufa View Post
                              So, I was reading through my second edition rule book and found an entire section on the creation of generic horrors. It's even called Horrors, so thought I'd share it here.


                              It's on page 140
                              CoD Rulebook Horrors =/= BtP Horrors

                              First are all the monstrous cryptids you find in Material Realm (werewolves would say 'in Flesh' ). BtP Horrors are nightmarish spirits from Realm of Dreams ( well, 'psychology as dream' ). First are random monsters of typical horror ( zombies, mutants, X-Files sort ). Second are specters that are intelligible or at most half-real. First are monsters, second are more like demons.


                              MtAw 2E - My Legacies and System Hacks Hubs
                              WtF 2E - My Lodges and System Hacks Hubs
                              WtF 2E - Alternative werewolves myths from around the world

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