Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why Do You Think Beast is Good/Bad?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
    All those things feed the same Hunger for Power. Some we punish, some we tolerate, some we applaud, but to the Dream they're part and parcel of the same impulse. Which makes Beast a very good vehicle for exploring the currents of power, evil, and abuse that run through mundane human interaction - and how much of it we accept - and how much of that we should or shouldn't.
    Isn't there an example of the Hunger for Prey being able to feed from hunting deer if low enough? Yes, it involves killing a living creature, but hunting deer is a long time practice of people and in some areas, practically required for road safety.

    And yet, there are Heroes who would kill that Beast regardless.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cinder View Post
      You're a monster because when the moment came, whether by "normal" or spontaneous Devouring, you accepted it. There's no other core conflict, no out-of.context menace and no excuse that "distracts" the game for this theme. You don't have the option to cast that aside: you have to deal with that right now because that's what you are.
      "If you have the desire to spill blood, say the Rabbis, become a butcher, and if you have the desire to steal (in other words to take hold of and possess) other people's money, become a collector of charity. In other words, take the desire you have, and use it for a good purpose.

      "This is a crucial idea within Judaism. There are two aspects to who I am as a person: the gifts and desires I am given, and what I choose to do with them. Everything we are given in this world, however challenging this may sometimes be, is ours for a reason. We all go through life with our own little package, our own suitcase, full of our talents and skills, desires and foibles; all the things that bring us up, and all the things that bring us down.

      "There isn't much we can do about that. Each of us has a suitcase, and whatever we think of it, it is ours to keep. Some are born tall, maybe they will become basketball stars, and some have musical talent, and others, the gift of knowing when and how to smile. Many of these talents we do not really earn, they are ours to develop. The question, however, is what we choose to do with them. And if everything comes to me from G-d, then even my weaknesses can be a gift, if I will only find a way to channel them for the good.

      "If I have a desire to steal, it must come from somewhere, and therefore there must be a way to make good of it. Our challenge in this world is how to do just that.

      "This, perhaps, is the offering to Samael, the "Sar Ha'Moshel Be'mekomot HaChurban", "The Prince who rules in the places of darkness and destruction", described by the Ramban. There is a place of darkness inside each one of us, that threatens to destroy us, to bring us down from the places of light we so long to reach. There are those who suggest that the only way to fully combat these desires is to retreat from the physical world so as not to grant them any place. If you have physical desires, live in a monastery, and desist from all contact with that physical world so you can put it out of your head.

      "Judaism, however, has a different approach entirely: Don't deny these desires, embrace them! But do so in a healthy manner, channeling their energy to a good purpose, in a healthy fashion."


      Resident Lore-Hound
      Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Satchel View Post

        "If you have the desire to spill blood, say the Rabbis, become a butcher, and if you have the desire to steal (in other words to take hold of and possess) other people's money, become a collector of charity. In other words, take the desire you have, and use it for a good purpose.

        "This is a crucial idea within Judaism. There are two aspects to who I am as a person: the gifts and desires I am given, and what I choose to do with them. Everything we are given in this world, however challenging this may sometimes be, is ours for a reason. We all go through life with our own little package, our own suitcase, full of our talents and skills, desires and foibles; all the things that bring us up, and all the things that bring us down.

        "There isn't much we can do about that. Each of us has a suitcase, and whatever we think of it, it is ours to keep. Some are born tall, maybe they will become basketball stars, and some have musical talent, and others, the gift of knowing when and how to smile. Many of these talents we do not really earn, they are ours to develop. The question, however, is what we choose to do with them. And if everything comes to me from G-d, then even my weaknesses can be a gift, if I will only find a way to channel them for the good.

        "If I have a desire to steal, it must come from somewhere, and therefore there must be a way to make good of it. Our challenge in this world is how to do just that.

        "This, perhaps, is the offering to Samael, the "Sar Ha'Moshel Be'mekomot HaChurban", "The Prince who rules in the places of darkness and destruction", described by the Ramban. There is a place of darkness inside each one of us, that threatens to destroy us, to bring us down from the places of light we so long to reach. There are those who suggest that the only way to fully combat these desires is to retreat from the physical world so as not to grant them any place. If you have physical desires, live in a monastery, and desist from all contact with that physical world so you can put it out of your head.

        "Judaism, however, has a different approach entirely: Don't deny these desires, embrace them! But do so in a healthy manner, channeling their energy to a good purpose, in a healthy fashion."
        This is exactly what I'm talking about. In better, wiser and more eloquent words than mine. Villains are cool and interesting, as they can always be, and you can write excellent ones using Beast as your framework but, to me, to core of the game is this one. Or at least it all gravitates around these principles: success, failure or refusal to follow them is what gives soul to the characters.
        Last edited by Cinder; 06-16-2017, 01:15 PM.


        Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

        I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

        Comment


        • #19
          To add to a point Cinder made a while back. I don't know if there are more minorities in Beast than other CoD books, but if there are then I know 100% that it would be because Matt is trying to be more and more inclusive in his games, completely regardless of the themes of the game.


          (he/him/his)


          Backer #2010

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
            To add to a point Cinder made a while back. I don't know if there are more minorities in Beast than other CoD books, but if there are then I know 100% that it would be because Matt is trying to be more and more inclusive in his games, completely regardless of the themes of the game.
            So yeah, this.

            I'm much too close to the material to get in on this kind of discussion; Beast contains my first published work, so it's difficult for me to untangle the negativity about it from my own feelings, regardless of whether or not I think it has flaws, or if I would write things differently if I could now. But I can say this: I include minority characters in my writing because I'm bone tired of writing about white dudes; I'm a white dude and even I'm sick of reading about me. I included a particular non-binary character because it was a shout out to a friend of mine, not for any particular agenda about Beast. I won't argue intent vs. impact, but that's where I came at it from; you're not likely to convince me that Beasts = the oppressed, if only because I was there.



            Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

            Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
            Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
            Storytellers Vault: Author Page

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ElvesofZion View Post
              To add to a point Cinder made a while back. I don't know if there are more minorities in Beast than other CoD books, but if there are then I know 100% that it would be because Matt is trying to be more and more inclusive in his games, completely regardless of the themes of the game.
              Oh absolutely. I'm a straight white guy and yet that's something I appreciate from Matt's book. I think to remember reading him saying as much and I'm totally ok with. The fiction anthologies go for the same approach, so I just am not going to agree with the statement it's a Beast thing because it's factually wrong.

              I won't go as far as saying it's a mountain out of a molehill, people feel what they feel when they process a work of any kind. but I gotta admit that sometimes I can't help but to feel that's a silly exaggeration.


              Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

              I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post

                3) Beast is far more about using the monomyth as metaphor for human abuse than what so many people seem to complain about when the book and discussions lean towards larger population examples. Beast asks a vital question: "How does the concept of cyclical abuse hold up in the face of abusers seeking a way out of that cycle?" Like all metaphors, it's also imprecise in execute. Vampires are (at least post-Gothic reimaginings) rape metaphors, but that doesn't mean Requiem has unfortunate implications just because it doesn't really deal much with how that metaphor would logically relate to the victims of vampire feeding. Beast isn't about oppression, but othering, and in the exploration of the other oppressed minorities stop being a black & white issue. Members of any given oppressed minority can easily given in to the desire to counter-other those that oppress them. It's easy to stop thinking of cops as humans and just think of them as the enemy when they're constantly harassing you (or worse) because of your skin tone. Trying to escape that mentality is difficult, and entirely what Beast is about.
                THIS. As someone who was born into the cycle of abuse thanks to his asshole father, the abuser trying to escape the cycle bit has a lot of meaning to me. I inheirited the same mental issues that made my father abusive, but I try to control them, with medicine sure, but also by venting those impulses in ways that are as harmless as possible (and honestly, the venting is never 100% harmless for me or others, no matter how much I try). And even then, some people in my life judge me by what my father did and I can never stop that, so yeah, Beast has a lot of meaning for me.


                Despite the user name I am actually bigender.

                My Savannah Setting for CofD can be found here

                My heroes as monster tamers rules for BtP can be found here

                Comment


                • #23
                  I wanted to write you what I liked about the game, but it turned out that I like exactly the things that your agrue aren't there. So I'll always point out why I disagree with you on a point, and then why I like this theme, I hope this approach is okay for you.

                  Originally posted by crapcarp View Post

                  Betrayal of Theme

                  ​Chronicles of Darkness definitely has a theme of moral ambiguity all throughout the gamelines. It's a game that asks the question "Are you really sure you're doing the right thing?" constantly, and if players and/or characters aren't mulling over that, then frankly something's going wrong. Beast: the Primordial goes "Fuck all that, Beasts=good, Heroes=bad". The game goes on and on about how Beasts are right, good, and necessary, despite the fact that they literally make people suffer in order to live. How? Because they teach lessons, apparently. Yeah, humanity has forgotten to fear the dark, so Beasts are here to remind people why they should (which is really backwards, but I'll get to that), how nice of them.
                  That is really weird idea, because the
                  "Are you really sure you're doing the right thing?" is the central theme of Beast. Even more so than in the other games, where you have to deal with man different antagonists (Pure, Seers of the throne, loyalists ...). In Beast there is no external enemy to fight, no adversary trying to ruin your life, its just you and your hunger and how you try to deal with it. Take for example the campaign at the end of the book: The main question of it is "What shall we do with Ms. Childress?" Is she right to pursue her legend or should we stop her? When we played (translated to the great plains and her becoming an avatar of tornadoes) it, these questions and how to stop her were the main part of game.

                  Which is the main reason why I like beast and think it is a great game. You can explore what it means to be a monster, the struggle between your human side and your horror and how you try to live you life with monstrous desires. In short far from betraying the theme Beast makes it the core of the game.


                  And the Heroes? Well they're obviously wrong and bad. Why? Because they just wanna make the story all about them. It couldn't be the simple fact that Beasts are killing people, or at the very least making their lives a living hell. No, they just want the Beast's head on a pike. I mean, it's one thing to have a game that's about subverting the narrative, but it's completely another to say "All the Heroes are bad guys, end of story!"

                  ​INB4 "But the game mentions good Heroes". Yeah, it does, in a single sidebar, and that's about it. And what does said sidebar say about them? That good Heroes never interact with Beasts, so you should just have bad Heroes in your chronicle. That is one of the most contrived and laziest hand-waves I've ever seen. The game pretty much up and says "Screw having any nuance or thinking about your actions, you're a wonderful, special snowflake. Heroes gonna hate!"
                  That is simply wrong. There is for example Desmon Oakes who is very much a nuanced character. Likewise the the two heroes in the example campaign do not just hate beasts. One was deliberately targeted by Esmee, while the other one is a police officer who suffers dice penalties on any attempts to track the players if she is convinced of their innocence.

                  Unfortunate Implications

                  ​As if it's portrayal of Beasts ain't bad enough, we also have the game's subtext: Beasts=oppressed minorities, and Heroes=oppressors.
                  While Beast share similarities with oppressed minorities, heroes are not oppressors, at least not how I understand the term. To me an oppressor benefits strongly from the inequalities of the system and therefore tries to sustain it. And they are almost never the people who enact violence against the excluded. Heroes don't profit in any way from the system (unlike say the pure who gain powerful spirit allies) but suffer from it as much as the beasts do. The problem with heroes is that they deny that Beasts are persons, and in this they are a warning of what beasts can become if they no longer care about other humans but treat them as just food.

                  Which is another thing I greatly like about Beast. Your antagonists constantly remind you whatever reasons you use to justify your life other people can come up with justifications for your death. This is something that I never felt in the other games. To me the Seers of the Throne were simply and obviously wrong in using their magic to oppress others but they and their egoism never were a moral challenge to my characters.

                  ​If that's not enough evidence for you, then consider the truckloads of the corebook fiction portraying Beasts as actual minorities (or at the very least, in such a position). So yes, the game portrays Beasts as oppressed and downtrodden because they just can't help being what they are, and Heroes wanna cave their heads in because they're meanies who just don't understand. But that's not my main issue here. Yeah, it's incredibly petty, but it also has the unfortunate implication that minorities actually do hurt people and that those bigots who say so are 100% right. The simple fact is: Beasts make people suffer. Sure, they do this in order to live, but people aren't wrong for trying to defend themselves. I mean, is it wrong to kill a lion that's about to kill and eat you? Sure, it's gotta eat, but that doesn't make it wrong for you to avoid being eaten.
                  That is again wrong. Beasts do not have to make people suffer. Its an easy way to feed, yes, but not the only one. A beast can take its monstrous hunger and use it for good ends. The book as several example of beasts who feed themselves by helping others. One is a lawyer defending the poor, another a through health inspector and so on. A Tyrant can feed by becoming a star athlete. One character we had was an ugallu ravager who feed by destroying privacy. She used this to become an investigative reporter and exposing corruption and abuse of authority in the city.

                  Which is another thing I like about beast. Its about coming to terms with what you are and putting your talents to good use. You cannot deny your hunger but you can sate it in healthy way that is helping those around you.

                  ​The Slumbering Condition. It might seem rather odd to point to a single game mechanic like this, but lemme explain. The Slumbering Condition makes a Beast effectively into a normal human being. They don't need to feed, as they don't lose Satiety, and all they lose is their supernatural powers. That's it! Even if Beasts are born, all they have to do is feed a few times and just have their Horror slumber.
                  Becoming slumbering leaves you defenceless against the insatiable (who become stronger the higher your satiety is). So it is effectively just a complicated way of committing suicide.

                  So Beasts can actually help being what they are, but you know who can't?

                  Heroes.

                  ​Yeah, once a Hero, always a Hero. They're always stuck being sensitive to the Primordial Dream (and before it used to be that Beasts created Heroes)
                  That is again wrong. A hero can gain enough integrity and stop killing Beasts. Which is another point I like about Beast, it allows for a realistic chance of resolving problems with your enemies without killing them. If the hosts are infesting your packs territory you won't be able to negotiate with them, there is no option but to exterminate them. In contrast you can try to negotiate with a hero which is noted several times in the book.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                    Beast asks a vital question: "How does the concept of cyclical abuse hold up in the face of abusers seeking a way out of that cycle?"
                    Well ... no, it isn't. You can drift Beast that way by designing PCs who view their condition as a vice to be restrained, but that isn't what's in the text. Beast isn't about people who are trying to control a deep-seated impulse to do evil. It's about people who have that impulse ... and are, if anything, encouraged to indulge it, limited only by the practical risk of being caught and punished. Moreover, the NPCs that exist as faces of that risk are, in the main, described with contempt, as broken half-mad wretches who often find and punish the wrong Beast. The revisions made between the Kickstarter draft and publication softened the picture a bit, but they didn't change the fundamentals.

                    If there is any game that needs a Humanity trait like Requiem's, Beast is it. This is the game that most needs rules to say that thinking of yourself as a terrifying legend (or a heroic legend) instead of a part of human society is a really bad idea. The critique of the Monomyth implicit in the Heroes - that trying to become a legend by slaying monsters is a form of madness - falls flat when the Beasts themselves are told they're legendary monsters and ought to behave as such, which (in the absence of a morality meter) is what Beast's rules and descriptive text do say. If it's right for Beasts to become legends, it can't be wrong for Heroes to become legends also.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Michael Brazier View Post
                      You can drift Beast that way by designing PCs who view their condition as a vice to be restrained, but that isn't what's in the text. Beast isn't about people who are trying to control a deep-seated impulse to do evil.
                      This isn't the main point of the metaphor I'm highlighting.

                      Where this comes in, and Beast is fairly direct about stating, is that Beasts have the capacity to recognize their place in the monomyth as the monster the hero is out to slay, and that they can reject it. Beasts easily come to the realization that they don't want to die just for being what they are. They want to say they don't deserve to die just for being what they are. But they have to then struggle with whether or not the being they choose to become is one that doesn't deserve to die anyway. Which is why Beasts seek things out like the Lessons narrative to create a moral niche for them to occupy to justify their continued existence as they know they bring pain to others.

                      Beasts are a product of a system that creates abusive people (Beasts and Heroes both), and ties them into a seemingly endless cycle of violence (as framed with the monomyth). The core moral dilemma of the game is trying to escape that system when your own way out is to engage with the system that created you.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MatthiasThalmann View Post
                        Heroes don't profit in any way from the system (unlike say the pure who gain powerful spirit allies) but suffer from it as much as the beasts do.
                        It could be argued that Heroes profit greatly, actually... Heroes gain supernatural power from killing Beasts. And at some point in their career of killing monster after monster, they're rewarded with extended life.

                        A Hero can effectively continue living for centuries, stepping over the corpses of Beasts to do so.

                        Also, regarding Slumber, I think it says something that the Anathema of Heroes are at their utmost powerful art the time a Beast is at their utmost weakest. High Satiety empowers Anathema, and when Slumbering at 10, Beasts have no access to their powers to defend themselves either.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Michael Brazier View Post

                          Well ... no, it isn't. You can drift Beast that way by designing PCs who view their condition as a vice to be restrained, but that isn't what's in the text. Beast isn't about people who are trying to control a deep-seated impulse to do evil. It's about people who have that impulse ... and are, if anything, encouraged to indulge it, limited only by the practical risk of being caught and punished. Moreover, the NPCs that exist as faces of that risk are, in the main, described with contempt, as broken half-mad wretches who often find and punish the wrong Beast. The revisions made between the Kickstarter draft and publication softened the picture a bit, but they didn't change the fundamentals.

                          If there is any game that needs a Humanity trait like Requiem's, Beast is it. This is the game that most needs rules to say that thinking of yourself as a terrifying legend (or a heroic legend) instead of a part of human society is a really bad idea. The critique of the Monomyth implicit in the Heroes - that trying to become a legend by slaying monsters is a form of madness - falls flat when the Beasts themselves are told they're legendary monsters and ought to behave as such, which (in the absence of a morality meter) is what Beast's rules and descriptive text do say. If it's right for Beasts to become legends, it can't be wrong for Heroes to become legends also.
                          A Humanity Trait would probably undermine Beast significantly. The game doesn't need a mechanic to say to players that doing bad things to people is probably immoral or unethical.

                          Having no trait like Integrity or Humanity speaks volumes about Beast due to the absence. But it doesn't forbid Beasts from having their own morals or ethics. They can still feel bad or guilty about things they've done, or refuse to do particular actions because they believe or think or feel that it's wrong to do it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Why do I like Beast? When the kickstarter draft became available I was clawing my way out of a really dark place and in so many ways the game was an eerily accurate metaphor for the things I was struggling with. I'm a sadist and I'm prone to violent intrusive thoughts, especially when stressed, and I didn't know what either of those things were, just that the inside of my head was an increasingly and acceleratingly awful hellscape. See, having a violent intrusive thought and not knowing what it is or having any effective strategies to control or cope with it is pretty damn stressful, which creates a sanity shredding feedback loop. That's the Horror, that voice telling you to hurt people just because you can, even though you like them and you don't want to and it would destroy your life and not benefit you in any way whatsoever. Beast is a game about living with that, with no way to turn it off or escape it, and you don't even have the option to just ignore it like most humans learn to do. Do you just surrender to those whims, no matter how vile, no matter how much trouble they get you in? Do you find some compromise, some way of indulging both you and the Horror can live with, if grudgingly? Do you decide you can't live as a monster and must therefore die? Heroes will make that third choice for you, if you let them. I came way too close to that.

                            Imagine, if you will, getting turned away from donating blood because your blood pressure is 150/110, emergency hypertension levels, and thinking: that's good, I probably won't have to keep this up more than a decade before I have a fatal heart attack. It will make my friends and family sad, but they won't blame themselves for unexpected heart failure the way they would for an obvious suicide. That's the best I can do so that they never have to know what I really am.

                            So I get Heroes, I get seeing a monster nobody else sees, and being absolutely certain to the core of your being that even though this thing looks like a regular person on the outside it has to die, and that burden falls on you. And being horrifyingly batshit crazy wrong about it. Anxiety and bad social conditioning will do that to you.

                            I think that ends up being one of the biggest problems for people trying to engage with Beast. I see so many complaints about the heavy handed presentation of Heroes as Bad and Beasts as Good and the thing of it is, while the book goes to significant lengths to make it clear that Heroes are NOT the Good Guys they think they are, I don't see it making a strong argument that Beasts are really the Good Ones instead.

                            What I do see is people making the logical leap that if Heroes aren't the good guys then Beasts must be the good guys instead. Which is completely missing the point. There are no good guys, or at least that falls to individuals rather than this faction or that. This isn't the Hero's Journey just with the factions swapped. The book could be clearer about this, it's definitely written from a slanted pov, but I never saw the simplistic black-is-white, white-is-black take so many others seem to get out of it.

                            I see a game about deciding what you're willing to do to stay alive, about learning to cope with your hunger, about finding ways to reduce your impact, or even do some good, and finding people to help you do it. It can also be a game about cutting loose and giving your id free rein, and for some people that's a welcome dark catharsis, but for me there's a lot of power in a game where it's easy to be the monster people expect and hard to be the good guy, and doing your damndest anyway. A lot of power in a game about finding communities of people with similar problems, who understand, who can help, who can teach you it doesn't have to be all or even mostly bad.

                            And sometimes you just gotta personify your anxiety and punch it in the face for making you feel like shit.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              This seems like it's turning less into what you think is good or bad about Beast and what you think is wrong about other peoples views on the game.

                              I think the concept's pretty interesting. The developer, I think, spoke about it being inspired by this book on fears, Stephen Asma's On Monsters: An Unnatural History of Our Worst Fears. And if you look at the book you can see where a lot of the ideas came from, though they kept some more problematic influences out. Like a million years ago I was watching one of Gentleman Gamer's videos and he did an interview with Matthew McFarland and I remember the question about what kind of game you want to make or play come up, and McFarland responded something like Werewolf or Assassin, the party game not the Forsaken one. Where you sneak up behind people and 'gotcha' them, but instead of killing them you sort of just scare them. And that always sort of skewed my view on the game itself, in what I think is a positive game. To me, it's a game about being the scary monster. And like others above have pointed out, there's nothing really wrong with that, just how you go about doing it.

                              During the Kickstarter I argued a lot about it, I didn't like the original depiction of Heroes, that changed, but one thing I also had trouble with was the whole 'what do you do' aspect of the game. And to me it's sort of a mish-mash of ideas that don't really fit together well. Scare people, great, but also maybe become an Apex or Incarnate and befriend or study other monsters. Maybe explore the Astral plane? On its own, just Beast, it seems sort of aimless. These are things a player might want for their character, not something an entire game should be built around . If you attach it to another game, that's fine, but Beast also comes with a lot of baggage and, frankly, power. The powers are interesting, which is a big enough plus for me, but don't seem to fit what the game is trying to do necessarily, which is a negative. I'm not sure what the goal was when it came to powers but for a crossover I think you would want something that would supplement or otherwise mesh well with others while going their own way and not overshadowing the original, which doesn't seem to be how things ended up.

                              There's good and bad in it, I guess. One of the worst parts to me is the negative aura around it. I mean, I don't like some games, I get it, but you deal with that by playing other games, not going on and on about the ones you don't like. Having thought about it a lot it seems like ideally, to me, it would have been heavily toned down in power scale and be part of a blue book on mini or micro templates to come out with the Crossover Chronicle. But I'm hopeful that further supplements will flesh out the game as is into a more palatable state.
                              Last edited by nofather; 06-17-2017, 12:27 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Off topic - or perhaps, slightly on it. I know one of the complaints is that the Heroes who are not mindless psychopaths are the ones with high integrity, and that you won't really see them. But... that's not really true, is it? I mean, think on it - Heroes, unlike Beasts, do not get the benefit of being able to embrace the world the way it is. They have integrity as a trait defining their mental health - a trait which can degrade anytime you experience a traumatic event, -especially- a supernatural event. The fact that they are heroes does not mean that they get some kind of mental health resistance to it - far from it, in fact. Because the Hero -can- see more, he can also devolve faster than any normal person - especially if there are Beasts about who are not cautious in their hunting habits, or who let their Horrors run rampant.

                                So I don't think it's really right to say that you will not run into a Hero who is open minded. The problem is, that you (or the other Beasts around you) can weather that hero without even realizing what it is you are dealing with and likely -will- without even meaning to - so in many a case, if that Hero was sane to begin with, the Beast may well make it otherwise by it's very nature.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X