[w/Princess] Odd Friends-Don't Mess with a Princess and Her Dragon

[The Kings Raven]

Yes. But said Ravager would be complicit in the mass murder of his Kin the Darkspawn.

(I think the rules as written say any Beast could team up with Champions, Furies, or Stormwracked hunting Darkspawn since they all recover Wisps by doing so; if they're ok with killing Kin just for being what they area. Personally I'd houserule against it for being a too easy way to escape the moral questions of Hunger. Either way, it's not a game of Beast: the Primordial any more. It's a Beast tagging along with Princesses.)

[Master Aquatosic]

I'm not getting what's the problem with that. With a sufficiently dark Twilight Princess, you could also have a game of Beast with a Princess tagging along.

And Beasts don't have to like all their kin. True Fae are kin, but the stereotypes they have on Changelings show the average Beast tends to try to protect Changelings from them. And Nemeses can always hunt down other supernaturals.

Beast is about family and horror and hunger, but it no more has to be a game of "I'm an asshole and I love it" than Vampire or Werewolf.

[Wormwood]

What this topic made me think of:

It is not a perfect fit, but this is how an Anakim Tyrant's Feeding/Lesson can look like.
Also:

and

[Master Aquatosic]

What this topic made me think of:

It is not a perfect fit, but this is how an Anakim Tyrant's Feeding/Lesson can look like.
Also:

and

Thank you for this light-hearted interval.

[Mangaholic13]

Yes. But said Ravager would be complicit in the mass murder of his Kin the Darkspawn.

(I think the rules as written say any Beast could team up with Champions, Furies, or Stormwracked hunting Darkspawn since they all recover Wisps by doing so; if they're ok with killing Kin just for being what they area. Personally I'd houserule against it for being a too easy way to escape the moral questions of Hunger. Either way, it's not a game of Beast: the Primordial any more. It's a Beast tagging along with Princesses.)

I'd think a Princess of the Storm would be more likely to kill any Beasts on sight, assuming that they're just Creatures of Darkness; though, I guess they might mistake a Beast that has kinship with a Werwolf for a potential ally.

I also think a Beast would want little to do with Brats. Brats probably make Beasts of the psychotic, glory-seeking kind of Hero.

Though, I wonder how Beasts and Tears would get along... Does Alhambra have Begotten? And are they "better" than other Begotten?

Also, I have this glorious thought of a Beast Stereotype for Princesses:

Makara on Princesses: What? No, I'm not gonna do that with my tentacles! Why is that the first thing you think? Get your head out of the gutter!

And personally, I'd house-rule out Beasts being able to use Family Dinner with Princess. Otherwise, it does indeed diminish the role and important of Hunger in a story featuring Beasts.

[Mangaholic13]

You know, I had a story idea about a Beast and Princess step-siblings slowly learning more about each other:


As if being a teenager and a high school student, Jamie also has to juggle the responsibilities of being a Noble who must spread hope and light whilst battling the forces despair. Adding to her troubles, her step-father (who was more of a dad to her than her biological one) has just passed away suddenly. On top of helping her mother and herself deal with the resulting grief, her step-brother Adrian, who used to be living with relatives, is now living with them again, and it quickly becomes clear that he and her mother do not get along, at all. And while he seems nice enough if a bit quiet and introverted, there is just something about Adrian that puts Jamie on edge. To top it off, his first night at the house, Jamie finds an intruder in her Dreams, a shadowy creature that repeated defies all attempts to find it, that she tracks back to Adrian's dreams. Could her step-brother be a Darkspawn in disguise, a Amanojaku, or something even stranger?


Being a teenager is hard, so is being in high school, and for Adrian, it's even harder since he isn't truly human. A part of him is a living nightmare that craves fear, and if he should ignore this hunger, that part of him will go out and ravage the dreams of people around him. This binge eating will make waves that attract monster slayers who, at best, will kill him on principal, at worst, decide everyone he knows is guilty by associating and kill them along with him. Complicating matters, his dad just passed way unexpectedly, and now he'll be spending Junior Year living with his step-mother (the bitch) and step-sister Jamie (she's not so bad though). And wouldn't you know it, Adrian was so caught up in everything, he forgot to feed the his Beast, which decides Jamie's dreams look particularly tantalizing. Fortunately (or unfortunately, depends on your perspective) Jamie's dreams turn out to not be what Adrian or the Beast expected, and now Adrian is pretty sure his step-sister might be closer kin than he ever imagined.

One is a Princess that brings hope and joy, seeking to rally and unite people, whilst waging a never-ending war with despair and suffering. The other is living nightmare that must gorge himself on the fear and terror of others, regardless of the damage it might cause, hungers for family and kinship with fellow monsters, and battles the madmen that call themselves "Heroes".

What do you guys think, does it sound workable or not?

[Mangaholic13]

Yes. But said Ravager would be complicit in the mass murder of his Kin the Darkspawn.

(I think the rules as written say any Beast could team up with Champions, Furies, or Stormwracked hunting Darkspawn since they all recover Wisps by doing so; if they're ok with killing Kin just for being what they area. Personally I'd houserule against it for being a too easy way to escape the moral questions of Hunger. Either way, it's not a game of Beast: the Primordial any more. It's a Beast tagging along with Princesses.)

Also, I really find myself often wondering: Should Darkspawn really be considered Kin for Beasts? Should there be a thread on here about what is or isn't Kin?

[The Kings Raven]

I'm not getting what's the problem with that. With a sufficiently dark Twilight Princess, you could also have a game of Beast with a Princess tagging along.

Twilight Princesses are very specific in the way they go dark. You might be able to do something with a Courtless Lacrima specalist, but that would be more of a buisness relationship. Favours for stashing someone safely in the Lair.

And Beasts don't have to like all their kin.

They don't, but I can't help but feel killing them on sight just because of what they are would be a line for most Beasts.

Beast is about family and horror and hunger, but it no more has to be a game of "I'm an asshole and I love it" than Vampire or Werewolf.

Beast is more "I'm a monster, and I alone decide what that means". They don't have to embrace card carrying evil, but I feel it looses a certain something if "I decide" means "I agree with the hypothetical average human about it".

The way I handle the balance is by saying that Beasts might agree or disagree with different feeding strategies. But the idea that it's inherently wrong to pray on helpless mortals is alien to anyone still on the family christmass card list.

I'd think a Princess of the Storm would be more likely to kill any Beasts on sight,

Remember that Princesses have a very diverse set of abilities. Most Furies have a detect Darkness power that Beasts won't set off (unless they're using Family Resemblence)

I also think a Beast would want little to do with Brats. Brats probably make Beasts of the psychotic, glory-seeking kind of Hero.

Yep. Brats were Heroes long before Beast was written. (Though from what I've heard they're a popular splat without a controversy attached so we must have done something right)

Though, I wonder how Beasts and Tears would get along... Does Alhambra have Begotten? And are they "better" than other Begotten?

The key things to remember about Tearsare

1. They are lawful evil, and strongly look down on anything who isn't lawful. That includes Beasts, the Begotten don't have a formal government.
2. They're total hypocrits about surviving as a prasite on humanity. The fact that their Wisp farms are as bad as feeding through terror will not make them more understanding.
3. Tears have low Belief, so despite the fact their principals should put them against the Begotten - they'd happily cut a deal with them anyway if they thought they'd benefit.

But the most important thing of all. Tears is Princess' take on Dark Magical Girls which mean they embody the young girl's fear of being alone. Princess' magic is emotionally based, and Lacrima is the magic of depression. Closer family members than Beasts have tried and failed to reach out to people suffering from depression; and that's probably the most interesting angle for a Begotten/Tears relationship.

And personally, I'd house-rule out Beasts being able to use Family Dinner with Princess. Otherwise, it does indeed diminish the role and important of Hunger in a story featuring Beasts.

So would I.

What do you guys think, does it sound workable or not?

Of course it's workable. But you'd have to be open to either charachter snapping and shattering the status quo at a moments notice.

Also, I really find myself often wondering: Should Darkspawn really be considered Kin for Beasts? Should there be a thread on here about what is or isn't Kin?

Why wouldn't they be kin?

[Mangaholic13]

Beast is more "I'm a monster, and I alone decide what that means". They don't have to embrace card carrying evil, but I feel it looses a certain something if "I decide" means "I agree with the hypothetical average human about it".

The way I handle the balance is by saying that Beasts might agree or disagree with different feeding strategies. But the idea that it's inherently wrong to pray on helpless mortals is alien to anyone still on the family christmass card list.

Makes me think of the a World of Darkness tag line I once read on TVTropes, "Monsters we be, lest Monsters we become." and this line from a story I read:

"Are we gonna become monsters?"
"That all depends."
"Depends on what?"
"What kind of monster do you want to become?"

Admittedly, the tone deaf nature of the Beast Core book, calling the Beasts victims of typecasting which portraying Beasts as revel in being evil monsters, (which I blame on Onyx not giving the writers enough time after they ordered the rewrite. That, and that Beast being effectively new territory, not being based on anything from the Old World of Darkness) makes it feel hard to understand how one makes a choice or decision.

Yep. Brats were Heroes long before Beast was written. (Though from what I've heard they're a popular splat without a controversy attached so we must have done something right)

It probably helps that Brats are fighting a foe that isn't meant to be sympathized with, much less the player character (except as the idea that you're performing a Mercy Kill).

The key things to remember about Tears are

1. They are lawful evil, and strongly look down on anything who isn't lawful. That includes Beasts, the Begotten don't have a formal government.
2. They're total hypocrites about surviving as a prasite on humanity. The fact that their Wisp farms are as bad as feeding through terror will not make them more understanding.
3. Tears have low Belief, so despite the fact their principals should put them against the Begotten - they'd happily cut a deal with them anyway if they thought they'd benefit.

But the most important thing of all. Tears is Princess' take on Dark Magical Girls which mean they embody the young girl's fear of being alone. Princess' magic is emotionally based, and Lacrima is the magic of depression. Closer family members than Beasts have tried and failed to reach out to people suffering from depression; and that's probably the most interesting angle for a Begotten/Tears relationship.

Part of me feels what Tears does is actually worse than what Beasts do. Yes, Beasts terrorizing people is a bad thing, but fears can be overcome and traumas healed (with great difficulty) but by stealing away hope, Tears takes away peoples ability to overcome fear, endure suffering, or recover from trauma. Also, while Tears refuse to acknowledge that hypocrisy, a Beast can admit, "this lesson stuff is bull. In the end, I'm just trying to pick between two bad choices."

I don't know, I'd love to consider how Beasts might feel about Tears though.

Why wouldn't they be kin?

Because, to be honest, Darkness feels to me more like an Insatiable than a Beast. Darkness shows an endless hunger for victims to drive into despair, while Beasts have a point where they can be full. Darkness's mere presence drives people to acts of evil and madness, like an Insatiable's Schism. And while Beasts seek out fear, Darkness seeks fear and despair.

I know the difference seems small since both fear and depression are considered bad things, but fear is part of a persons' emotions and survival instincts, it is natural to be scared or afraid; but depression (not SADNESS) is not a natural feeling and an actual mental disorder.

[The Kings Raven]

It probably helps that Brats are fighting a foe that isn't meant to be sympathized with, much less the player character (except as the idea that you're performing a Mercy Kill).

The fact Princess doesn't tell players what they should think about Brats probably has something to do with it too.

Part of me feels what Tears does is actually worse than what Beasts do.

I don't think you could objectively say who's worse.

Because, to be honest, Darkness feels to me more like an Insatiable than a Beast. Darkness shows an endless hunger for victims to drive into despair, while Beasts have a point where they can be full. Darkness's mere presence drives people to acts of evil and madness, like an Insatiable's Schism. And while Beasts seek out fear, Darkness seeks fear and despair.

But you could say the same about Spirits and Infernal demons. Spirits have an endless hunger for Essence of their resonance, Infernals for vice and sin. Yet both are known to be kin already.

[ArchonAres]

But you could say the same about Spirits and Infernal demons. Spirits have an endless hunger for Essence of their resonance, Infernals for vice and sin. Yet both are known to be kin already.

I must have missed the note about infernal demons being kin. Where was that?

[The Kings Raven]

Nowhere, but Spirits and the Lucifuge are stated to be Kin.

[Master Aquatosic]

I dunno if I'd call Spirit Essence hungers endless any mor3 than I'd call our need for air and food an endless hunger just because we'll eventually need more. Sufficiently smart spirits can feel full and delay gratification to garner greater Resonance in the future. I think the same goes for infernals, but I don't know enough about them

[Malus]

I dunno if I'd call Spirit Essence hungers endless any mor3 than I'd call our need for air and food an endless hunger just because we'll eventually need more. Sufficiently smart spirits can feel full and delay gratification to garner greater Resonance in the future. I think the same goes for infernals, but I don't know enough about them

For every spirit that's smart enough to feed sustainably there's 100 who can't or won't.

[Master Aquatosic]

For every spirit that's smart enough to feed sustainably there's 100 who can't or won't.

The same could be said for humans. I'm not denying how alien their minds are, just that in many ways, we are also creatures of hunger.