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  • Beasts interactions with Lair HOW-TO

    So I got some doubts how being Begotten works, even after reading Beast Player's Guide. Beast is human host of Primordial Dream Horror that is in the Lair Chamber(s) in Dream. BPG points that Beast and Horror becomes truly One when Beasts enters the Lair and merging, with Beast 'at wheel' of this nightmarish monster being.

    However, I'm not sure I get it right on what happens to human body of Beast - Is it still in the material world, laying comatose when Beast now riding it's own Horror in Dream? Or material body of Beasts simply vanish when she cross the Pathways and for the time being - until she leaves her Lair - she IS her Horror, and her material body is no more in existence? So how this works? I suspect second option, but descriptions are not direct on this.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-22-2018, 02:12 AM.


    LGBT+ in CoD games
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  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    So I got some doubts how being Begotten works, even after reading Beast Player's Guide. Beast is human host of Primordial Dream Horror that is in the Lair Chamber(s) in Dream. BPG points that Beast and Horror becomes truly One when Beasts enters the Lair and merging, with Beast 'at wheel' of this nightmarish monster being.

    However, I'm not sure I get it right on what happens to human body of Beast - is it still in the material world, laying comatose when Beast now riding it's own Horror in Dream? Or material body of Beasts simply vanish when she cross the Pathways and for the time being - until she leaves her Lair - she IS her Horror, and her material body is no more in existence? So how this works? I suspect second option, but descriptions are not direct on this.
    It's the second option - the Beast's body physically merges into the Horror/Beast fusion-creature.

    Also, you could stand to ask all these questions in the Beast questions thread as opposed to starting a new thread for each one.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
      It's the second option - the Beast's body physically merges into the Horror/Beast fusion-creature.

      Also, you could stand to ask all these questions in the Beast questions thread as opposed to starting a new thread for each one.

      Agreed on both points. The very point of the Ask a Simple Question threads is to prevent this sort of clutter that makes it harder to find specific threads and maybe even taxes the site's memory limits (I dunno how the code works)


      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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      • #4
        I created topic as I just getting started here. So the human host body vanishes on entering the Lair, on the merging with Horror.

        But then question is - HOW Beast opens way to the Lair? Is it classical portal, like large circle in one way of physical side of location, showing interior of the Lair inside it? Or does only Beast summons Traits of Lair and vanishes, changing the real location for the Primordial one, melting in the thin air? If it is portal - someone can easily follow here through. If it is vanishing - it's impossible to come on her. On first scenario I can easily see Heroes going after Beast by her Lair on portal still working. On second take it will be difficult even for broodmates to join Beast, as there is literally nothing more for them to follow her through. So what's is game answer and it's implication?

        Edit: It seems it's take three - physical location and Dream Chamber overlaps for number of turn. Thanks, Wormwood!
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 04-22-2018, 02:13 AM.


        LGBT+ in CoD games
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        • #5
          I concur with both Master and ajf.


          Edit:
          When a Beast opens a Primordial Pathway, the current physical location and the Chamber's Primordial counterpart overlap - the Primordial Chamber becomes the current physical location for a certain amount of turns. After those end, everything is going back to normal, and only those who've left that particular chamber stay in the Primordial Dream. That people can theoretically easily follow is a plot point and mentioned several times.
          Last edited by Wormwood; 04-21-2018, 03:46 PM.

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          • #6
            This is all explained in the book, though I understand that it can be hard to fully comprehend what you read in your second language.

            Also, to deter you from making new threads left and right, I'm going to say that if you want your questions answered, you need to post your question in the correct thread. I can't control what other people do, but I'm going to keep my mouth shut until you post this in the Ask a Simple Question thread for Beast.
            Last edited by Master Aquatosic; 04-21-2018, 03:59 PM.


            A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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            • #7
              Gonna have to join Master on this one.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                This is all explained in the book, though I understand that it can be hard to fully comprehend what you read in your second language.
                And so you understand why I spring topic about series of related questions. I found Beast 'corebook language' to be very flowery and some nuances of it are missing my understanding of English. You do not want to here answer - fine. But I find 40 pages long topic not any helpful in finding those nuances related to the corebooks general concept.


                LGBT+ in CoD games
                Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wormwood View Post
                  When a Beast opens a Primordial Pathway, the current physical location and the Chamber's Primordial counterpart overlap - the Primordial Chamber becomes the current physical location for a certain amount of turns. After those end, everything is going back to normal, and only those who've left that particular chamber stay in the Primordial Dream. That people can theoretically easily follow is a plot point and mentioned several times.
                  Okay, number of turns overlapping between material and Dream is in the Beast Players Guide? Those Dreamquake effects? Cause on reading them I understood it's more number of turns that particular Chamber is able to crash those inside it, not that this effect of Chamber could kill people in physical location.


                  LGBT+ in CoD games
                  Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                  Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                  Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                  My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    But I find 40 pages long topic not any helpful in finding those nuances related to the corebooks general concept.
                    Wyrd, nobody is telling you "read the Ask A Simple Question thread to find your answers." People are telling you that if you have a simple question, the place to ask it is in the Ask A Simple Question Thread, which exists specifically so that the board does not become cluttered with people making multiple threads asking simple questions.​ A certain amount of repetition is accepted as inevitable for those threads precisely because they are so large.

                    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                    Okay, number of turns overlapping between material and Dream is in the Beast Players Guide?
                    It's in the section on Primordial Paths in the core rulebook. Page 97.


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                    • #11
                      Okay, so page 97 and 98 of BtP corebook solves most of my questions. We will see if something more comes to my mind on subject, later on.

                      Opening Pathways ( also to the Lair )
                      Originally posted by BtP, p. 97
                      Dice Pool: Wits + Resolve
                      Action: Instant
                      Cost: 1 Willpower
                      (...)
                      Success: The Pathway successfully opens and lasts for the opening character’s Resolve in turns.
                      Exceptional Success: The Pathway successfully opens and lasts for the rest of the scene.
                      Other beings in area of open Primordial Pathways
                      Originally posted by BtP, p. 98
                      Anyone in the external location attempting to leave while the Pathway is active instead finds themselves transitioning to another Chamber through one of the Lair’s Burrows. Anyone still in the Chamber when the Pathway closes ends up in the external location. Collapsing a Chamber immediately closes any Primordial Pathways open to it.


                      LGBT+ in CoD games
                      Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                      Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                      Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                      My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                      • #12
                        Wyrd. I'm not sure we're supposed to post exerpts with actual mechanics. It might be copyright infringement


                        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
                          Wyrd. I'm not sure we're supposed to post exerpts with actual mechanics. It might be copyright infringement
                          Game mechanics are not something that can be copyrighted.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Paradim View Post
                            Game mechanics are not something that can be copyrighted.
                            But the text is, and Aquatosic said "exerpts with actual mechanics" rather than just "mechanics".
                            Here's the copyright notice on the credits page (I bolded some relevant parts):

                            "© 2016 White Wolf AB. All rights reserved. Reproduction without the written permission of the publisher is expressly forbidden, except for the purposes of reviews, and for blank character sheets, which may be reproduced for personal use only. White Wolf, Vampire, and Chronicles of Darkness are registered trademarks of White Wolf AB. All rights reserved. Storytelling System, Vampire the Requiem, Mage the Awakening, Werewolf the Forsaken, Chronicles of Darkness, and Vampire the Requiem Second Edition are trademarks of White Wolf AB.
                            All rights reserved. All characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by White Wolf AB."

                            Edit: I'm not taking a side. Just tried to explain a bit. Copyright laws can be quite complicated, but as far as I understand it's definitely okay to quote books. It's when you post too much content that it might count as reproduction, which is illegal. (Hence why people have been warned for linking to wodcodex/Codex of Darkness as per forum rule 8.)
                            Last edited by Tessie; 04-24-2018, 02:10 PM.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tessie View Post

                              But the text is, and Aquatosic said "exerpts with actual mechanics" rather than just "mechanics".
                              Here's the copyright notice on the credits page (I bolded some relevant parts):

                              "© 2016 White Wolf AB. All rights reserved. Reproduction without the written permission of the publisher is expressly forbidden, except for the purposes of reviews, and for blank character sheets, which may be reproduced for personal use only. White Wolf, Vampire, and Chronicles of Darkness are registered trademarks of White Wolf AB. All rights reserved. Storytelling System, Vampire the Requiem, Mage the Awakening, Werewolf the Forsaken, Chronicles of Darkness, and Vampire the Requiem Second Edition are trademarks of White Wolf AB.
                              All rights reserved. All characters, names, places and text herein are copyrighted by White Wolf AB."

                              The text overall, yes. But there is a Fair Use in reviewing and discussion for excerpts.

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