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  • Omegaphallic
    started a topic BPG: lots of pet options

    BPG: lots of pet options

    Between Horrorspawn, Heralds, Doppelgangers, Cults, Well Stocked Lair Merit, Thralls, Minions, beasts seem to to have a lot of options for pets in BPG which I just bought which is interesting.

    But I have some questions. Do Thralls have numina and influence?

    How small do minions have to be, can they be human sized?

    How do you keep the person who you created a Doppelganger of unconscious?

    How would a Herald use the Scour the Form Kinship merit?

    Can yoi use other merits to represent elements of their cult beyond the usual uses, such as True Friend merit for your Herald, or a couple of retainers to represent some other members of your cult or your Herald?

    In the Well Stocked Lair merit it says you can create servants for your Lair from the stuff of dreams and nightmares that desolve if they leave the lair, what are these creates, are they Dreamborn, Actors, or something else?

    Can use you the dead body of one of your Doppelgangers to host your Horrorspawn?

  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    My point in providing contrast wasn't to say Beasts wouldn't team up with Seers. Beasts are loose and flexible enough that characters in the protagonist and antagonist factions alike are likely to find Beasts interested enough to invest. My point was simply to point out that antagonism is as likely as alliance. It really could go either way, depending on the attitudes of the Beast and the current state and action course of the Seers in the location.

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  • Deinos
    replied
    I didn't take it as aggressive at all! I did overreach.

    Rather, my stance that if a mage is going to offend beasts for being too humanocentric, the guys that serve horrendous eldritch gods that SEEM to have Hungers relating to Tyranny or Secrets are probably the least antagonistic. But even a Silver Ladder guy is probably not going to manage to hurt the feelings of a beast. I flat out don't think most beasts care if kin think they're "the best," I'm sure most beasts also think they're the best. My statement was more about equating the Seer POV to a Beast POV, not the Beast POV to the Seer POV. Seers are often not gonna like Beasts pointing out that the Seers were/are not human as well.

    Also, I view it as a way to humanize the otherwise utterly despicable Seers -- a beast may teach them that if you HAVE to be cruel to people, you can still put positives on it. And note that I don't consider beasts as having to be "cruel" at all. Those who are cruel, may very well often be positive influences more than negative ones (or I hope so, anyway).

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  • Wormwood
    replied
    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
    To be fair, this is the general idea for player character-suitable Beasts. One who has the view that Deinos pointed out would make for a good antagonist.
    That he would. And it would be amazing.
    It just felt like Deinos made a general statement regarding beasts, and I think in general, beasts are not too likely to adapt that point of view for a Variety of reasons, not least of all the desire to subvert common monster narratives (which would, I have to admit, include being a worship-worthy monster).
    If my comment came of in any way as aggressive, I apologize, that was not my intention.

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  • ajf115
    replied
    Originally posted by Wormwood View Post

    I have to say that I disagree with the idea of Begotten sharing this view. That might be a (Tyrant) Horror's point of view, but not necessarily a Beast's.
    Rather than just oppress, Beasts also attempt to teach, and the lessons skew closer towards "Here be dragons!" than "Worship the monster!": dont stray from the path/your people, those who live by the blade die by the blade, fear the dark lest you be consumed, appreciate your time/family, you are not safe are all focused on somehow 'improving' the victim's life. Outright worship is the Domain of the cult, and even that is a two-edged blade.
    To be fair, this is the general idea for player character-suitable Beasts. One who has the view that Deinos pointed out would make for a good antagonist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wormwood
    replied
    Originally posted by Deinos View Post
    At least Seers, unlike most mages, know that the role of mankind is not one of self-rule but to kneel at the feet of Monster-Gods, humbly licking the slime from the claws of their master's ochema ("fear is good&quot.
    I have to say that I disagree with the idea of Begotten sharing this view. That might be a (Tyrant) Horror's point of view, but not necessarily a Beast's.
    Rather than just oppress, Beasts also attempt to teach, and the lessons skew closer towards "Here be dragons!" than "Worship the monster!": dont stray from the path/your people, those who live by the blade die by the blade, fear the dark lest you be consumed, appreciate your time/family, you are not safe are all focused on somehow 'improving' the victim's life. Outright worship is the Domain of the cult, and even that is a two-edged blade.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deinos
    replied
    Well, Seers represent the subjugation of the entire world in servitude to the alien horror of unspeakable dark gods with obscene hungers very similar to Tyrants and Whispers (The Eye). I suppose Seers are humanocentric in that they are relatively human, but certainly there is very little reason to antagonize "near human" kin who are in service to fellow children of the Dark Mother (as defined on the chart, not as defined as to how mages would probably acknowledge it). At least Seers, unlike most mages, know that the role of mankind is not one of self-rule but to kneel at the feet of Monster-Gods, humbly licking the slime from the claws of their master's ochema ("fear is good").
    The closest a mage would come to antagonizing your average beast is probably a Thearch's nakedly jingoistic human supremacist creed but even then, initiating strife with a mage over a bad attitude seems suicidal. But YMMV.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Deinos View Post
    Good analysis.

    Getting along with Seers is probably quite easy for a Beast. A Seer's job is a Beast's dinner.
    Well, by contrast, Seers are highly prone to making themselves easy targets for Hungers by nature of their attitudes, and just because the Seer's tyrannic views on the world can mesh well with some of the wisdom Beasts unveil doesn't mean that Beasts don't have plenty to take umbrage with them as well. After all, the heart of their dogma describes a human-centric dominance that grates against what Beasts embody-the inevitable and unconquerable power of the world, and the sufferance and sustenance of humanity as subjected to and by that world.

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  • Deinos
    replied
    Good analysis.

    Getting along with Seers is probably quite easy for a Beast. A Seer's job is a Beast's dinner.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    How do you keep the person who you created a Doppelganger of unconscious?
    If you're feeling bold for a two for one deal, you go nab some Shrouds of Observation from the Seers of the Throne, kidnap the folks you want under your thumb, wrap them up, toss them in a Hollow you control, and then Doppleganger them. Now not only do you have perpetual servitors through your Dopplegangers, but you also have damn useful surveillance Goetia. Sure, you have to bust into a Seer Sanctum to get them, and sure that means you have a perpetual enemy in the form of a cabal of one of the most powerful organizations in the world, but dem benefits.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 05-03-2018, 07:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    Originally posted by Wormwood View Post

    Indeed. Otherwise this would be quite the drawback for the employees.
    Hahaha, yeah.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wormwood
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
    "I'd say they're just an extension of the Lair, and as such not real seperate beings."

    I assume you are referingto the creatures created (a opposed to merely employed) by the Well Stocked Lair merit?
    Indeed. Otherwise this would be quite the drawback for the employees.

    Leave a comment:


  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    "I'd say they're just an extension of the Lair, and as such not real seperate beings."

    I assume you are referingto the creatures created (a opposed to merely employed) by the Well Stocked Lair merit?

    Leave a comment:


  • Yossarian
    replied
    For the Herald/Cult stuff, if you want to have certain members represented by other Merits, it doesn’t hurt anything. You could pretty easily do away with the whole cult subsystem; it’s a broad mechanic to represent a lot of different things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wormwood
    replied
    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post

    How do you keep the person who you created a Doppelganger of unconscious?

    Can yoi use other merits to represent elements of their cult beyond the usual uses, such as True Friend merit for your Herald, or a couple of retainers to represent some other members of your cult or your Herald?

    In the Well Stocked Lair merit it says you can create servants for your Lair from the stuff of dreams and nightmares that desolve if they leave the lair, what are these creates, are they Dreamborn, Actors, or something else?

    Can use you the dead body of one of your Doppelgangers to host your Horrorspawn?
    By going to extreme lengths and use certain drugs. A good enough doctor should be reasonably able to keep people in coma for a long time.

    I don't see why you shouldn't.

    I'd say they're just an extension of the Lair, and as such not real seperate beings.

    Since the Doppelgangers, iirc, dissolve into ephemera upon death, I do not think so.


    My take on a 'Pet-master'

    Abel Thur
    Family: Namtaru
    Hunger: Power
    Legend: Relentless
    Life: Calculating
    Horror: Abathur
    Lair: 2 (Viscous, Minions, Corrosive)
    Atavisms: Doppelganger, Mimir's Wisdom, (if using Homebrew from this forum, Innsmouth Look)
    Several Horrospawn •: Zergling Rush =P
    Enough points in Well-Stocked Lair to tend to a few comatose people.
    Abel is a high-class Doc with a specialty in pharmacy, easily capable of keeping people in a coma for long stretches of time.


    And a different concept, if you're looking to flood your enemy in spiders:

    Horror: Shelob
    Relevant Lair Traits: Swarm (Spiders crawling in enemy equipment), Minions (larger spiders tripping enemies), Thrall (huge spiders attacking enemies)
    Relevant Atavisms: Infestation (turning into a bunch of spiders), Looming Presence (Size is proportional to swarm size)
    Relevant Merits: Horrorspawn (even more giant spiders, very dangerous ones, too)
    Relevant Kinships: Azlu (because what else did you expect?)

    Leave a comment:

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