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  • Help with Lairs: Traits and transport

    Hi all,

    So I've been reading the rules for lairs and there is quite a lot to get my head around. I wanted to check a few things to make sure I understood it all correctly, and how it all fits together.


    The first is the Primordial Gateways. The basics (from what I understand) are that you essentially overlap one of your lair's chambers over the current place you are. So lets say one of your chambers is a Flooded Submarine, if you opened up a gateway while standing in a hospital, the hospital would sort of 'merge' with the Flood Submarine chamber: you and everyone else are in two place at once. The Core rulebook says that anyone that hasn't gone through a burrow will end up back in the material world (i.e the hospital), does that mean for the beast to stay in their lair they have to leave the chamber? Or can they decide to stay in their lair when the Gateway closes? As a side note, can they prematurely close the gateway?

    The second is Lair traits. Im not entirely sure how the trait immunities work. If I understand correctly, the only immunities you get are against lair traits that have an associated tilt. So if you have the earthquake lair trait, you are immune to the earthquake tilt, if you have the electrified lair trait you are immune up to 10 electrical damage (assuming the most extreme version of the trait), but if you have the sealed exits lair trait you can still be trapped in places?

    And finally, I just wanted to check that there isn't actually any requirement for geographical relevance of any of the chambers in a lair. As in, a Beasts lair could have a Chamber which corresponds to a hospital in Singapore, and forest in Germany?

    If anyone has some good sources for explaining the rules for lairs and what plays can do with them, that would be a massive help!

  • #2
    Originally posted by farm_ecology View Post

    The first is the Primordial Gateways. The basics (from what I understand) are that you essentially overlap one of your lair's chambers over the current place you are. So lets say one of your chambers is a Flooded Submarine, if you opened up a gateway while standing in a hospital, the hospital would sort of 'merge' with the Flood Submarine chamber: you and everyone else are in two place at once.
    Sorry to disapoint, but you cannot open a gateway in a hospital this way. You need at least some resemblance physically.

    Originally posted by farm_ecology View Post
    The Core rulebook says that anyone that hasn't gone through a burrow will end up back in the material world (i.e the hospital), does that mean for the beast to stay in their lair they have to leave the chamber? Or can they decide to stay in their lair when the Gateway closes? As a side note, can they prematurely close the gateway?
    The Beast has to leave too, as I gathered from the book, but that doesn't feel "right". So I will pay attention to it during a reread.
    I think it stays open, a little draw-back if you are too enthusiastic about opening them.

    Also you aren't technically in the Lair, think of it as standing in the front door.

    Originally posted by farm_ecology View Post
    The second is Lair traits. Im not entirely sure how the trait immunities work. If I understand correctly, the only immunities you get are against lair traits that have an associated tilt. So if you have the earthquake lair trait, you are immune to the earthquake tilt, if you have the electrified lair trait you are immune up to 10 electrical damage (assuming the most extreme version of the trait), but if you have the sealed exits lair trait you can still be trapped in places?
    If you impose the trait, you are immune to it. But there is an example in the book for Cramped, where it mentions that the Beast won't be able to shrink by default, so I would say yes, you can be trapped. <if anyone knows this to be different tell me, I'm using this trait as well >

    Originally posted by farm_ecology View Post
    And finally, I just wanted to check that there isn't actually any requirement for geographical relevance of any of the chambers in a lair. As in, a Beasts lair could have a Chamber which corresponds to a hospital in Singapore, and forest in Germany?
    Correct
    You can have chambers from multiple Hives, but also IN multiple Hives Player's Guide explains it further, but the Chamber can be more like a concept, that exists in more than one places.
    Last edited by IceBen; 05-07-2018, 11:01 AM.

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    • #3
      Also, as an add-on, you are immune to higher versions of your traits as well. So if you are immune to 5 electrical damage, you can withstand one dose of 10 as well. The Beast will feel ill effects only after spending Lair*hours exposed to it.
      Last edited by IceBen; 05-07-2018, 11:15 AM. Reason: Added mechanics

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      • #4
        So if you *can* random leap frog your lair into another area. It's just *really hard*. It's easier to use Under the bed or generate a lair traits first.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by IceBen View Post

          Sorry to disapoint, but you cannot open a gateway in a hospital this way. You need at least some resemblance physically. .
          That's a good point actually. Would merging a school with a hospital-based chamber work (although incurring dice penalties)?


          Originally posted by IceBen View Post
          The Beast has to leave too, as I gathered from the book, but that doesn't feel "right". So I will pay attention to it during a reread..
          This is what I was thinking. I might homebew it so the beast can remain in the lair, which I feel is more intuitive.


          Originally posted by IceBen View Post
          If you impose the trait, you are immune to it..But there is an example in the book for Cramped, where it mentions that the Beast won't be able to shrink by default, so I would say yes, you can be trapped. <if anyone knows this to be different tell me, I'm using this trait as well >.
          Is this only if you impose it? The text seems to suggest you are immune whether you impose or not?

          "Beasts are immune to the effects of any Environmental Tilt matching one of their Lair Traits, both those they impose and those occurring naturally."

          Although it mentions you don't get supernatural abilities to avoid situations without a tilt, but do if you impose the trait. So my understand is that you would be unaffected by locked doors you impose, still affected by locked doors you didn't impose, but immune to extreme heat at all times whether you impose or not.



          Originally posted by IceBen View Post
          Correct
          You can have chambers from multiple Hives, but also IN multiple Hives Player's Guide explains it further, but the Chamber can be more like a concept, that exists in more than one places.
          That's pretty cool. Im going to have a good read of the stuff in the players guide.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ArchonAres View Post
            So if you *can* random leap frog your lair into another area. It's just *really hard*. It's easier to use Under the bed or generate a lair traits first.

            It's more of a logical inference rather than explicitly stated in the rules but...

            Something I'm doing in my game is allowing Beasts to open Primordial Pathways from their Lair to external locations that have one of their Lair Traits active in order to find new locations a little easier. Basically that... The -3 die penalty of "The external location is in the material world" stacks with the -3 die penalty of "A precise location isn't known" combines to a pretty harsh -6 die penalty. But the Beast can make it a little easier by saying they'll open the Pathway to anyplace with one of their Lair Traits active, giving a +1 die bonus to the roll, for a total -5 die penalty. But this still basically means a random location somewhere in the material world, just one easier to find because of the shared resonance they're familiar with.

            I find it useful, because the Beast has the Blizzard Lair Trait, which makes it more thematic for him to be able to show up in random places where an actual blizzard is occurring. If the Beast in this example approaches it carefully, they could better narrow down their external location by watching for weather reports around the world.

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            • #7
              Logic isn't really needed- it's a nightmare.you enforce upon reality.

              I too allow for random jumps, and allow players to choose to specifically jump to areas sharing one or more lair traits. Does the white walker come with winter, or does winter come with the white walker?

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              • #8
                I'm all about hombrewing this part, because it makes things more fun to play (for the player at least), but by RAW you get -5 die just by trying to open a pathway between your chamber that is a hospital room, and a different hospital room by default. This gets lower depending on matching traits and panic levels. (Exceptional success on a nightmare brings it down to like 3, iirc)
                So mechanically it is really hard to open a pathway if you aren't doing it in your chamber's physical side. And normally you can't open it in places that aren't at least looking like it. But of course if you bring hospital equipment to that classroom it will kinda look like a hospital room.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by farm_ecology View Post
                  That's a good point actually. Would merging a school with a hospital-based chamber work (although incurring dice penalties)?
                  The two places need to be at least the same basic type of location and there's an additional penalty to the roll based on how closely your relation to the location matches the Chamber you're trying to overlap it with (it's in the rules for Chambers and Lair Traits on page 101). The easiest time you'd have short of bridging to an identical hospital would be if you were in a hospital that, while lacking an identical layout, was still the basis for a Chamber you had formed in the same way as the Chamber incorporated into your Lair.

                  Originally posted by ArchonAres View Post
                  So if you *can* random leap frog your lair into another area. It's just *really hard*. It's easier to use Under the bed or generate a lair traits first.
                  Knowing what we now know about the Primordial Dream, I think it's more likely that the two alternate means of accessing the Primordial Pathways put you in the dreamscape of the area rather than necessarily anywhere near your Lair, though admittedly the Dream makes for a much stronger starting point to try and jump to one of your Chambers just from pure metaphysics.


                  Resident Lore-Hound
                  Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                  • #10
                    But what the others mentioned isn't too far into homebrew territory actually, you can open pathways to anything that resembles your chambers. One of your chambers is a blizzard? The book straight-out allows you to jump to any blizzard. (It speaks about physical resemblence, not simply lair traits though)

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