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  • #31
    ElvesofZion, it is probably because I read the quick start guide, which is probably somewhat different from the corebook. Do you still want me to get the page number and quote

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    • #32
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      As someone who was first interested - then discouraged by final corebook - and then impressed by Beast Player's Guide, I can point to those things that sell me to the Beast.

      1. It's about STORIES-STORIES! As mythologies buff, I love games about myths. And I like good horror. That's why Beast appeals to me more than Scion, for example. It's a game about living, breathing, scary stories - that can eat you alive! You ARE the stories your grandma told you. You are those things from horror movies you watched as kid. And you WILL wrote your own ending to them. How cool is that?! I started whole topic about http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/beast-the-primordial-aa/1208030-horrors-from-mythologies"]using classical monsters from myths as new Horrors for Begotten[/URL]. I prepare a fan Dark Eras about http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/werewolf-the-forsaken/1111302-dark-eras-baptism-of-poland-x-xi-century-poland"]Pagan Poland[/URL] and http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/1125616-fan-dark-era-conquest-of-paradise-age-of-exploration"]15th century Geographical Explorations [/URL]- and monsters there.

      2. It's about DREAMS! Yeah, those are nightmares of people, but good surreal setting is great setting to use.

      3. It's (mega) Crossover! You can have anything you like in it from CoD universe - and it should work! And Kinship is cool.

      4. It's about Family! As family man and loving life partner I appreciate stories on family relations and Mother's Love. Especially as your Mother is Echinda, Tiamat or Lilith...

      5. I can play a Dragon! At last!!!!
      You should work in retail with a sales pitch like that good sir.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
        ElvesofZion, it is probably because I read the quick start guide, which is probably somewhat different from the corebook. Do you still want me to get the page number and quote

        It has been a very long time since I read the quickstart so it may differ in that regard, I don't know.

        You don't have to get a quote, but if you make a positive assertion then having the evidence to back it up helps. Since this isn't a Demon questions thread I'm not particularly worried about it.


        (he/him/his)


        Backer #2010

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        • #34
          The Unchained are themselves disconnected from a vast edifice of human-adjacent inhuman systems that expands Its dominion through directed and esoteric action rather than the natural unfolding of circumstances; they further maintain their false identities through stolen resources from that same system or by written agreement with mortals who have no necessary common ground with the demon in question besides their amenability to a deal, are subject to an unmaking of their mortal identities by human scrutiny, and are often desirous of a literal or metaphorical safe place away from the attentions of God and Its watching angels. Recurring failure to live up to the ideal of the Moscow Rules notwithstanding, they do not trust easily.

          There would almost have to be something in place to keep the immediate course of events from being "squad up" upon their becoming mutually aware of an entity that lives in the deepest part of the collective unconscious behind the aspect of a powerful monster drawn from the very soul of the natural world and its direct connection to the human experience, else Demon loses its own themes in the face of any Beast involvement that doesn't contrive a personal reason for each and every individual Unchained and Begotten to not be able to trust each other in the face of normal monstrous charisma. There needs to be a reason for demons not to readily look at cordial relations with a Beast as a low-risk resource and there needs to be a reason for Beasts to not look at a demon's predicament and make an offer predicated on what their Mother gives them — "even when everything else goes bad, I'll be here" is not something Demon benefits from having as a true (albeit dark) thing about their environment.

          tl;dr Demon's entire shtick is that its protagonists are disconnected from the wider world and have to lie, cheat, and steal their way into having a place in the world, and Beast's protagonists being placed as intimately connected to their surroundings and relationships with at least one abiding place set aside for them and anyone they bring into the fold needs to interact with Demon with respect to that incompatibility. Framing it as some kind of Begotten superiority complex is shallow and doesn't help with the process of understanding the games.


          Resident Lore-Hound
          Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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          • #35
            First considering the OP, you are neither the first nor the last to ask this question.

            And since my response would be just restating what I said before in one of said threads, well:

            Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
            Speaking for myself: the ideas and themes in Beast were always solid. I think it was the presentation of the game was what turned people off. But thankfully the newer releases have been doing a better job at making the intriguing ideas and themes clearer, especially the recently released Player's Guide.

            This game appealing to some but not to others is nothing new to me. That's the big draw with Chronicles of Darkness (and by extension World of Darkness): the different gamelines have something for everyone to dig into and have fun with. Me personally: while I dig the hell out of Beast, Changeling, Demon, and Werewolf, I find Mage to be a little intimidating for me to dive right into and Vampire was always a tough sell because I don't find playing as vampires to be all that interesting.

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            • #36
              Additionally, you can do minor flavor tweaks to eliminate most of what you find unappealing (as I did, and you cited a position near mine). I can elaborate if desired, because it is off topic here.


              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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              • #37
                I like the idea of primordial dream, lairs and atavisms.... but I needed to changed the rest of the fluff to get enjoyment from it.


                Genius templates: Super Science Mini-Template for Demon: the Descent

                Oracle the Endbringers: Time-Manipulator Fan-Splat

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                • #38
                  Rather than rehash what others have said, i'll give some bits of what my current Beast is doing:

                  To frame this, the game's setting is actually in post-apocalyptic Las Vegas in a world where the God-Machine was essentially shut down; this resulted in nearly every supernatural splat save Beasts and Demons losing much of their power, as neither of the two were dependent upon it for their power, and in this version of the setting the God-Machine created the Dark Mother to essentially form the other supernaturals - who were basically failed projects and attempts at creating suitable servants before it settled on Angels as as ideal servants.

                  Thus far, my Beast - who is a psychiatrist and an Anakim Nemesis, has spent most of his efforts protecting 'his' city and the people therein. He's formed a brood with two other Beasts of a similar mind, as well as a pyrokinetic/hunter and an Atariya. His typical feeding method usually involves beating the crap out of someone who desperately deserves it and he has actually been on the frontlines of several battles to keep the city safe (not that hard to devastate an invading force with Flooded, Earthquake and Crushing Lair Traits). The worst thing he's done so far was pretty callously torturing an agent of a coalition of Heroes by breaking bones until he decided to share information with some assistance from good Intimidation rolls and Looming Presence. In fact, the Pyrokinetic was intended to be prey, but he didn't have the heart to make a victim of a tiny, relatively helpless woman, and instead decided to take her home and feed her a sandwich. When he can't successfully feed either because no suitable victims are available or there are no opportunities to do so, he has a Primordial Cult that helps him find prey or offers themselves up to be fed upon.

                  He actually was instrumental in killing the previous Apex - a Snake Host that was spreading a nasty infectious plague throughout the city and beyond - by strangulation, with the assistance of a group of mortals with guns, a few other Beasts (only one of whom was a Broodmate) and a Demon who ended up going full demon form to end the fight decisively. This demon lost the clash of wills against three of the four Beasts present and tied with one. Before the scene was over, they were cool again thanks to an inspiring speech from a severely depowered vampire ally with a really good Presence + Expression dicepool scoring an exceptional success and allowing them to blow the Inspired condition to resolve all the other negative conditions. it helped that the demon in question had been a friend to all present for quite some time and generally a pacifist who was quick to call the Beasts out on their shit. As of right now, we're dealing with the aforementioned small army of Heroes and their followers trying to attack Vegas for a second time in three years, among other smaller plots. Thus far, he's met two demons and knows them for what they are - in neither case has it ended in anything but raised hackles followed by a lengthy philosophical conversation.

                  That's where we're at right now, aside from my Beast's personal subplots - the Atariya I mentioned earlier is his girlfriend, and she's got some serious emotional baggage from her past, plus he's a fair bit intimate with his broodmates all of whom are various degrees of disturbed, which thanks to his mundane profession means he ends up playing counselor to all of them and more people besides - Begotten mental health experts are few and far between, as you can imagine.

                  And all that is only from a month of in-game time.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                    Additionally, you can do minor flavor tweaks to eliminate most of what you find unappealing (as I did, and you cited a position near mine). I can elaborate if desired, because it is off topic here.
                    Go ahead bud

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                      The Unchained are themselves disconnected from a vast edifice of human-adjacent inhuman systems that expands Its dominion through directed and esoteric action rather than the natural unfolding of circumstances; they further maintain their false identities through stolen resources from that same system or by written agreement with mortals who have no necessary common ground with the demon in question besides their amenability to a deal, are subject to an unmaking of their mortal identities by human scrutiny, and are often desirous of a literal or metaphorical safe place away from the attentions of God and Its watching angels. Recurring failure to live up to the ideal of the Moscow Rules notwithstanding, they do not trust easily.

                      There would almost have to be something in place to keep the immediate course of events from being "squad up" upon their becoming mutually aware of an entity that lives in the deepest part of the collective unconscious behind the aspect of a powerful monster drawn from the very soul of the natural world and its direct connection to the human experience, else Demon loses its own themes in the face of any Beast involvement that doesn't contrive a personal reason for each and every individual Unchained and Begotten to not be able to trust each other in the face of normal monstrous charisma. There needs to be a reason for demons not to readily look at cordial relations with a Beast as a low-risk resource and there needs to be a reason for Beasts to not look at a demon's predicament and make an offer predicated on what their Mother gives them — "even when everything else goes bad, I'll be here" is not something Demon benefits from having as a true (albeit dark) thing about their environment.

                      tl;dr Demon's entire shtick is that its protagonists are disconnected from the wider world and have to lie, cheat, and steal their way into having a place in the world, and Beast's protagonists being placed as intimately connected to their surroundings and relationships with at least one abiding place set aside for them and anyone they bring into the fold needs to interact with Demon with respect to that incompatibility. Framing it as some kind of Begotten superiority complex is shallow and doesn't help with the process of understanding the games.
                      And you are right about that. However, being shallow is something that is integral to the nature of a Beast. They are depicted in the core as very petty, vain, and shallow for all their talk of understanding what it means to dream deep when it comes to their opinions of other monsters and their own hungers ( Seriously, a lot of the example Hunger characters are shown to be petty as all get out, not to mention kind of lazy and almost ridiculously metaphorical when it comes to how they interpreted how to fulfill said Hungers).

                      The monsters they embody and the proverbial lessons they teach stem from such things, to illustrate the folly of being too prideful, avaricious, vengeful, etc - well at least in the past. So I don’t think it’s incorrect at all to attribute a superiority complex as part why they are so incompatible alongside the metaphysical and thematic divide. There is no one answer, and they all have equal merit.
                      Last edited by Korogra; 05-08-2018, 10:40 AM.

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                      • #41
                        You seem to see all beasts this way, but it's simply not true. Beasts are widely varied in personality, the corebook may not to do a good job showing that, but they are not all the same thing at all

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                        • #42
                          Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it!

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Korogra View Post
                            And you are right about that. However, being shallow is something that is integral to the nature of a Beast.
                            Hey Kor?

                            This is what nofather meant by your posts being ironic.


                            Resident Lore-Hound
                            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                              Hey Kor?

                              This is what nofather meant by your posts being ironic.
                              And again, I do not see why. Possibly because no one has explained what they see as ironic. I would appreciate being told how it is ironic.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Korogra View Post

                                And again, I do not see why. Possibly because no one has explained what they see as ironic. I would appreciate being told how it is ironic.
                                I think it is being said that your reading is shallow, when you assert Beasts of being shallow.


                                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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