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[Hack] Heralds as entering level Template

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  • [Hack] Heralds as entering level Template

    As I run my RPG club games, I uncovered that best is to give new players Lesser Template characters of the gameline for start and limited choices - and later on change them into proper gameline's Major Template, testing new players. In Werewolf I advise new players to start as Wolf-Blooded - make Mortal character, then choose one, maybe two Tells and we roll the with this PC in the game. After few sessions, as player is interested in continuing, we make him full Uratha in First Change.

    Now, as I slowly preparing Beast chronicle for another RPG club, I wonder if not using Heralds ( from Beast Players Guide ) in this way as Lesser Template. The problem is that in RAW Heralds are connected with particular Beast, not the Horror she is having. As I wanted more to make Heralds as entering to the proper Beast characters, I can simply make Heralds as 'champions' for particular Horror, preparing to be Devored.

    But then comes another, larger dilemma - If making Heralds as proto-Beasts is even worthwhile, as really simplified character creation? To choose powers for particular Herald we already need to have Horror for it in mind. You need to choose Life, Legend, Hunger, at least one Advanced Merit, Minor and Major Lair Traits. At this moment creating Herald is only less demanding than created proper Beast by not choosing Nightmares and Atavisms.

    If making simplified Heralds temple doing it's service? Would loosing some of those choosing work for the characters that are 'dark cultists of particular Horror'?


    LGBT+ in CoD games
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  • #2
    I don't understand your last question? Perhaps rephrase it? Honestly though, do what you want and think will work well. I just don't think Beasts are that hard to wrap your head around their mechanics in comparison if you're giving your homebrew heralds all these traits.


    A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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    • #3
      Spawned the idea for a more limited lesser template here: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...37#post1222237

      I'm thinking: mortal + Atavism(s), maybe a Hunger (that they can use to recoup Satiety or Integrity, depending on which the template goes with). Mortal offspring of a Beast, so the Horror need not be present or fully developed to start. Might eventually inherit the full Horror in their own Devouring later (and transition into full template).

      Formidolosii, if I ever fully developed them, could serve for a basic Nightmares intro template. Or you could spin off a YAST (yet-anothet-sorcerer-take) as humans using Nightmares.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • #4
        I guess the "cheaper" way would be to run the to-be-Beasts as psychics/sorcerers, i.e. mortals with Supernatural Merits, whose theme fits with the Birthrights, Lair traits, Atavisms, and Nightmares they're soon going to get. Like giving Psychokinesis (Fire) to someone about to become a dragon and get the Dragonfire Atavism. Hey, psychics are Kin, so...


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
          I guess the "cheaper" way would be to run the to-be-Beasts as psychics/sorcerers, i.e. mortals with Supernatural Merits, whose theme fits with the Birthrights, Lair traits, Atavisms, and Nightmares they're soon going to get. Like giving Psychokinesis (Fire) to someone about to become a dragon and get the Dragonfire Atavism. Hey, psychics are Kin, so...
          I think wyrd wants something that still interacts with Beast's mechanics and possible themes, without the full template. Ghouls give a sample if discipline use before full Vampire, Proximi allow one to get used to Supernal magic without the full Mage options, etc.


          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            I guess the "cheaper" way would be to run the to-be-Beasts as psychics/sorcerers, i.e. mortals with Supernatural Merits, whose theme fits with the Birthrights, Lair traits, Atavisms, and Nightmares they're soon going to get. Like giving Psychokinesis (Fire) to someone about to become a dragon and get the Dragonfire Atavism. Hey, psychics are Kin, so...
            Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
            I think wyrd wants something that still interacts with Beast's mechanics and possible themes, without the full template. Ghouls give a sample if discipline use before full Vampire, Proximi allow one to get used to Supernal magic without the full Mage options, etc.
            Yeah, I want some Lesser Template that is interacting with Beast setting at least, using some mechanics of it as good addition. Like Wolf-Blooded Tells in Werewolf - they split some mechanics of Uratha full template, giving a part ability to starting character, firmly in WtF setting as sort of resources all werewolf fight for. Using Supernatural Merits from CoD Rulebook can certainly be used for it - I literally have now new Wolf-Blooded character that play 'witch' that have one official Tell ( Tongues ) and two lower other Supernatural Merits. However...

            I much more want to give players things that are easily to use, giving some part of future Begotten characters version 'prequeal'. Thinking about it, making Heralds the pre-Devoured humans, may point to the Nightmares and maybe take part of Obcasus Rites. Much more 'cultists of dream Horrors' than fleshy sub-Beasts with non-the-less much more physical Atavisms.

            The problem is with rewriting rules from Beasts template to 'Mortal+' version - Would using Willpower instead of Satiety be enough to work in mechanics framework? Low Satiety effect would then work when character would have 1-2 Willpower points left?
            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-26-2018, 03:52 PM.


            LGBT+ in CoD games
            Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
            Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
            Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
            My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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            • #7
              Honestly, Atavisms and Nightmares are so much simpler than other splats' multi-step abilities, that I'm not sure any kind of slimmed down, entry level template is needed. If you do want to use Heralds for it... well, the book does say that they're automatically Devoured if their patron Inherits.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

                I much more want to give players things that are easily to use, giving some part of future Begotten characters version 'prequeal'. Thinking about it, making Heralds the pre-Devoured humans, may point to the Nightmares and maybe take part of Obcasus Rites. Much more 'cultists of dream Horrors' than fleshy sub-Beasts with non-the-less much more physical Atavisms.

                The problem is with rewriting rules from Beasts template to 'Mortal+' version - Would using Willpower instead of Satiety be enough to work in mechanics framework? Low Satiety effect would then work when character would have 1-2 Willpower points left?
                Willpower varies too greatly to be reliable to track (as a ratio for High Satiety). It also seems more plentiful, so the Expenditure cost doesn't seem to have the same impact. Since Satiety is supposed to replace Integrity, why not just use that? At Integrity 7+, they get the HS effects. Once they start breaking, they lose the taste of power unless they keep investing in it. If costing a dot of Integrity is too much, treat voluntarily taking a Breaking Point as the SE cost. Actually, since Nightmares don't really cost anything to activate (other than the action), you might want to make them cost a Willpower for the Mortal+ characters.

                You should probably just make a separate template rather than Hacking the Herald one. More options, and easier to communicate with others.


                Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vent0 View Post

                  You should probably just make a separate template rather than Hacking the Herald one. More options, and easier to communicate with others.
                  'Progeny' and 'Hatchlings' present themselves as names. 'Worms', 'Infants' or 'Halfeaten' could be derogatory terms. It would depend, though, on the fluff of their metaphysics and their relationship with a Horror, Beasts and the Dark Dream.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ajf115 View Post

                    'Progeny' and 'Hatchlings' present themselves as names. 'Worms', 'Infants' or 'Halfeaten' could be derogatory terms. It would depend, though, on the fluff of their metaphysics and their relationship with a Horror, Beasts and the Dark Dream.
                    Or, considering the link to Nightmares, something like Phobos or Deimos.


                    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                    • #11
                      Okay, here is what I hammer to this time. Thanks for ideas, especially Vent0.

                      Progeny ( Lesser Template )
                      Before every Devouring are Dark Dreams of Primordial. Recurring, fear inducing, mind-bending nightmares, every day, every night. Often there is only few days between Horror induce his presence in subconscious of person, before creation of Beast – but sometimes it takes weeks, even months, some stories even takes about years - before Horror finally Devour human. In this transitional time, future Beast is receptive to Primordial Dream and fears of humanity. He even can shape Nightmares in others or participates in Obcasus Rites, if he focus enough. He is, for time being, Progeny of particular Horror – not a Beast yet, but not human also.
                      • Progeny gain Unseen Sense: Primordial Dream for free, or a permutation relating to their Horrors’ Family Ties. Family Ties can be bought as Supernatural Merit. ( Probably 1 dot Merit? )
                      • Progeny starts with one Nightmare based on nature of Horror. Next Nightmares can be bought as Supernatural Merit. ( Probably 3 dot Merit? )
                      • For each rule saying about Satiety level use Progeny’s Integrity as this trait. Satiety Expenditure is made for them as Breaking Point test, not direct lose dot of Integrity.
                      • Progeny can participate in Obcasus Rites and is counted as assisting Initiate or as cultist, deepening which better help the Rite performing
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 05-27-2018, 09:15 AM.


                      LGBT+ in CoD games
                      Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                      Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                      Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                      My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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                      • #12
                        Sounds nice, but maybe they shouldn’t have Family Ties yet? It sounds like something meant for Beasts proper.

                        Also, why the name Progeny? Yes, it was one of the suggestions, but the lore behind them doesn’t point to them being distant relatives or descendents of Beasts/Horrors (unlike, say, Wolf-Blooded) Progeny of the Dark Mother? But that’s a title every Primordial being has to claim, isn’t it?


                        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                        • #13
                          They are kind the "child" of the Horror that eventually will turn them into a Beast (where they become their own parent?). Although another good name is Marked - as in Marked-for-Devouring, or Mark-of-the-Beast.


                          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                          • #14
                            Perhaps a less pleasant side to the Template should be added - maybe there's a way to use Progeny for hosts for Horrorspawn that makes them stronger?


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ajf115 View Post
                              Perhaps a less pleasant side to the Template should be added - maybe there's a way to use Progeny for hosts for Horrorspawn that makes them stronger?
                              Hmm, something like this?
                              • Progeny are sought out by Begotten not just because they can be nascent Beasts – but because they can become powerful tool, if Children of Dark Mother do not have qualms with humans morality. Using previous Progeny as body for Horrorspawn let it to decays two levels lower than normal. At Horrorspawn Potency it means 1 week till decay. At Potency 1 it’s 6 months and Potency 2 it’s 3 months.
                              So sacrifice your best monster cultists as vessel for yours new minor god…
                              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                              Sounds nice, but maybe they shouldn’t have Family Ties yet? It sounds like something meant for Beasts proper.
                              I added possibility of Family Ties because some Nightmares need them. Also, I always thought that whole Kinship more originated from connection to Primordial Dream and fears of humanity, not that Horror per say have tentacle and a like. By this, with Progeny marked by Horror and it’s Nightmares, I can think they can resonate with Family Ties, if they try hard enough. Rest of Kinship powers are outside of question for them.


                              LGBT+ in CoD games
                              Dark Eras fan stuff hub ( with Eras inside ):
                              Byzantine Empire in Middle Ages ( 330–1453 A.D.)
                              Conquest of Paradise – Portugal and Spain in 15th century and their conquests
                              My stuff for VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP

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