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To Kneel Before the Maw-Arcane Frameworks Beast Societies

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  • To Kneel Before the Maw-Arcane Frameworks Beast Societies

    "A god is just a monster you kneel to."
    -Michael Voght, Fall of Gods


    Okay, so one of the more persistent complaints about Beast has always been the lack of societies, a "common feature" of Chronicles game that, without the support of, makes Beasts feel aimless, unsupported, too heavily reliant upon outside support. People want them some kingdoms of monsters, and, okay, I get it, that just sounds cool

    But by and large, my opinion on this has been that it's bollocks, that Hungers tend to cause too much of a focus on Beast society to fall apart, that Beasts are more motivated by their own transcendence, etc., etc.-I'm hazarding most of you have at least a passing familiarity with my dialogue on the subject. This thread is...not explicitly about that, more me acknowledging that since the game has been played concerning Seekers of the Dark Mother and Cults of the Incarnates, and since it's a recurring subject of topic, it's time I stop saying "Fuck that shit" and start actually looking at what it would be like.

    This is not to say that people are going to like my take away here. I'm not here to posit societies of the Begotten that satisfy people's desires, rather layout what I think are the main points of what I think said societies would look like if you tried to grow them out of Beast organically and address some of the asides from such. I'm also not here to provide systems or write-ups about such societies-I'm more interested in the principles of the things, what are the things that must be answered in making such an attempt. To this end, I've got about Five Principles upon which I think form the shape of what Beast Societies look like, starting with:

    As Within, So Without-Beast Societies Follow the Transcendence of Particular Beasts, Therefore Beast Societies are Extended Broods

    Supernatural communities in Chronicles tend to ostensibly, and badly, provide a support system and contextualization for the monstrosity and horrors that any of it's members encounter, largely making it okay to be a monster and okay to have suffered those horrors. Covenants provide an answer for what it means to be a monster and therefore get you to lean into in a variety of ways, Courts and Freeholds provide emotional and psychospiritual support but also strive to create a safe space to keep the fairy side in their lives and thereby also keep them very fae, Guilds reinforce the doctrines and works of Irem and keep the Arisen prioritized on that than anything personal or in the moment of reality they dwell in, so on and so forth. At their hearts, they tend to be coping mechanisms for monsters in their way, a means of working out the conflicts of being a monster while directing them towards goals and ambitions, means of indulgence and relief, and against the various enemies that come their way.

    Beasts don't need that shit. They have it figured out. They came to terms with that with the Devouring. The persona of their human soul was ingested and incorporated into their shadow, the Horror, and they have emerged whole and complete. Every Beast knows what they do others and have come out the other side having accepted it anyways. These fuckers know who they are, and they are monsters. They've dived into the Chronicles world's darkness and have found it to be home. There's no dissonance here. They have actualized, they know who they are and what they want. In a very real sense, most Beasts on most fronts have become that which they could be, at least on big core things-details may remain, but a Beast is who they are if those get striped away.

    So with that out of the way, the pursuit of Beasts then is not the standard reconciliation of internal horror that most of the monsters deal with, but rather the expression of the end they arrived at. It is no longer enough to be whole within the self, but that the self must be made manifest beyond the self. The world made over in their image. For Beasts, that's actually literally what their Lair is-their presence within the extended Primordial Dream, each dot an extension of their real-estate on the psychospiritual landscape of humanity. Every Chamber, Every Feeding, Every Triumph is carved out of humanity and swallowed into the wholeness of the Beast.

    Broods may form because of the familial instincts of Beasts, but they tend to persist when the Legends pursued have alignment with each other, where they feed into each other and have the fulfillment of one Hunger facilitate the growth of the wider story at work rather than present a conflict to it. The more successful such Legends are at building Lair, the more space there becomes at filling in the niches in an ever expanding mythology that invites questions into the horror story and nightmare world being born. To this end, Beast Societies therefore form around the cults of the more successful and personally-structured Beasts.

    You can actually see this principle at work with the societies we already have. Incarnates have fulfilled their transcendence, having so permanently become a feature in the heart of humanity as to be flesh and blood, and therefore cults form around them following the wake of their success, which tends to feed around in a controlled food web of power and influence. The Dark Mother herself is, of course, the absolute embodiment of this principle. Legend must build upon Legend, Hungers must not starve each other, and Mythologies are only as strong as their Pantheons.

    So since basically Beast Societies are extended cults of personality, it should surprise no one that...

    Wherever You Go, There You Are-Beast Societies Hew Local rather than Global, Temporal rather than Eternal

    Again, the goal of every Beast is to Transcend Self, and therefore the inherent ground to seed, water, and sprout from is always and forever themselves, when they are, where they stand. It expands outward from there. In more practical terms, it's hard to create a widespread dread of yourself if only one or two people know about you in various cities around the globe. A very ambitious Beast might try to craft a worldwide Legend, to be sure, and as the world shrinks with improvements in communications and transportation, it's not impossible for a Beast to fail always and forever at such a task-hell, look at the impact of any shooter you like-but with a dwindling return on impact as shock becomes cheap and common, with a lack of immediacy, it's easier to foster the intimacy of horror where you are. Easier too, then, to also facilitate the addition of other Legends to strengthen your own when you have a society where everyone's on the same page, and the closer people are to each other, the easier it is for them to check each other's scripts.

    This fits two other images of Beast quite nicely, in relation to the practical element of it. One, monsters classically tend to be more isolated in encounter than mythologically spread out. Sure. Fenrir's mouth may scrape the heavens and earth, but you're gonna chat with him on the island he was imprisoned upon as the fountainhead of the River Anticipation, and while Jormungandr's body wraps around the whole of the world, any conversation with him is gonna be where he head is at. Dragons may have empires, but they start at the mountain rather than all around, and the Fomorians ruled Ireland, not Greece and Japan too.

    Secondly, it fits the idea of home. As the Beast expands themselves outward, it still hew close, the edges keeping cozy for those who find place in the Beast's story. Homes don't tend to be big, grand things in people heads, but rather comfortable and close by. Sure, the Lair may drip and have an uncomfortable horizon, but those who come in tend to focus on their closeness to family rather than those things.

    Anyways, back to the other side of things-time. Beast Societies are unlikely to be ancient. Oh, sure, the family element is there, and elements definitely continue travelling down the tree, but Lair is a Present Thing. Stories gain their power through their retelling, but each retelling that gets away from the original runs more risk of variation, subversion, deconstruction, alteration-it strays from being the coherent wholeness of Transcendence. Lair must be built in the here and now, regularly, to build and gain forward momentum, to become a staple in the soul of humanity. The consistents, the core of the Lair, the self of the Beast, must be perpetuated, and the functions of Beast Society largely leans towards this maintenance.

    But eventually, every story is going to change. You can't keep it straight forever, and that's assuming things go well. Eventually, time at least will get even the Incarnates, and that's assuming nothing else kills them, and also assumes that nothing shakes Myth or Legend soundly enough that the Lair loses ground. The Horror may reincarnate and gain from what remains, but a Beast lives on a clock, and their particular iteration of a Horror's ongoing story inevitably ends, and with that the foundations of Beast Society. Beast Societies are, honestly, Here and Now, not Then and There. They benefit from, and indeed are in pursuit of, presence.

    So, how do you keep things on track? What's the script? Well...

    We Will Find You Acting On Your Best Behavior-Lessons Guide the Society to the Ends of Their Story

    Yeah, I can hear you people already, settle down.

    Yes, I can see how this sounds like me dragging in my other pet peeves as conversations go- "Oh, people want to explore societies of Beasts that don't buy into the Lesson Bullshit and Arc doesn't like that, so of course he says it's a guiding principle. BOO!" I get it. BUT hear me out, because I have a comparison and a point.

    To this end, a question: what about pack aspirations for their territory?

    "Well, what about them?" I can hear you ask. Well, basically a pack of werewolves' aspirations for their territory is ultimately a statement of what they want their territory to be. Some will want their territory be a (mostly) peaceful, sleepy little suburb, some will want them to be money-making machines, others will want their territory to be a place of innovation and imagination. Often times, it won't start out completely like that, but in time they build it up to become that. They carve out the ....let's call them behaviors of a region that impede the goal, and foster the elements that encourage the growth and pursuit of the aspiration. After such work on their territory, if successful, they stand in a region that embodies their desires, that has been crafted into their vision, that has even learned to be what they want it to be.

    Guys. What is such a territory if not a region that has learned it's lesson?

    As we have established, territory, in the form of Lair, is hella important for a Beast, and any society of Beasts is going to be dedicated to the cultivation and pruning of that territory. The main difference is that for Beasts, it's the fears, thoughts, beliefs, and core identity of the people that form the landscape-and even that isn't actually all that different from what werewolves do, considering their work with conceptual and emotional spirits and resonances.

    In establishing that psycho-spiritual landscape for not only the leading elements of Society but everyone within it, the mythology gains it's doctrines and practices that reinforce the Lairs and keep them strong and present, and the establishment of such within individuals links those in the region by those practices and doctrines by people seeing, observing, and copying them. It becomes memetic, invasive, infectious. The Lair is there every time someone knows not to cross that lawn after eight, when people just know you had better not get handsy with the girls at this club if you know what's good for you, when the dealers know to leave a dish of coke for you out on their back step after a successful buy-and-sell. When people know the lessons, know what must be done to keep you you, and do them because of you, You Have Lair. This is is the sort of shit that builds Lair.

    And for maintaining a society of Beasts, a clear set of Lessons helps to keep everyone's Legends directed at building up each other's Lairs rather than knocking each others downs. It maintains the cohesion and freeflow of thought that unites those Legends into a seamless anthology of urban legends and childhood superstitions. By keeping the core of Lessons involved, a Society of Beasts ensures that everyone is on the path upward towards transcendence without getting in each other's way.

    And really, such is not surprising. You want to make your societies like everyone else, well then answer the questions of "What is the Iron Master's vow of 'Honor Your Territory in All Things" but a lesson in the keeping of your place, or the Free Council's decree of "Democracy Seeks the Truth" if not a lesson about the value of democracy, or the Aegis Kai Doru's tales of paradise lost if not a lesson about how werewolves and mages are assholes? And What use are those lessons if they do not spill out beyond the mere organizations and shape the world?" Have fun with that. Principles that guide any sort of organization that you can think of are nothing if not lessons they want you to learn.

    So, yeah. Lessons Guide Societies. I can't help you if you don't like that.

    It's My Red Star-Societies Exist In Relation to the Apex

    I don't have a whole huge thing on this one, but it strikes me that if the basic clay of Beast Societies stems first from the shared Hive of a Region, which is absolutely does and needs to be more involved with if it's going to end up as a thing that benefits a large number of Beasts, then it also stands to reason that Beast Societies inherently exist within the space between their Leading Beast and the Apex. The Apex shapes the Societies as surely as their Trait infects the Lairs of all within the Hive. It feels right to say that no Society could exist without accounting for some kind of response to the Apex, and without personal affectation. Think of it like an Apex 3rd Dot Merit Benefit in any Society's Status, if you like. Handy analogies include the relationship between the Orders of Mage and the Exarchs, or the Guilds of Mummy and the Judges, or the Courts of Changelings and the True Fae, I can go on-except that a Beast Society need not have an adversarial relationship with the Apex, but that these organizations must respond to the immediacy of effect the Apex has on the Primordial Dream in the area, therefore the Lair that all seek to foster within that Society.

    If your Society hosts the Apex, then hooray, not as many problems in that way, except that the majority of that society still exists within the divide between any remaining leaders and the Apex, and if the Apex is a lone leader, than it still stands within the next generation of Metaphysically Important People Within The Scheme of the Primordial Dream.

    I'll admit, I don't have this one fully fleshed out, but it resonates as Important so I wanted to make sure that's in here. I'll try and come back to it, but seriously, The Apex is Important For Any Beast Society.

    Dream Beneath My Wings-Beast Societies should be Viable, if Ugly, Alternatives to Other's Societies

    Beast is a crossover game, and every Beast is a home for the monsters of other lines to come to. Any Society of Beasts, therefore, should be able to build and enrich itself by fostering their family under their auspices, no matter who they are.

    It's really just an extension of how Beast's benefit from tending to their families anyways. They draw Nightmares, Chambers, Merits from them, so why not incorporate their needs and talents into the Societies? Kinship Brood Traits, why the heck not? The Kingdom Of Monsters can only grow and improve. Such facets and how it's explored also expand your own Lair, giving it tenor and purchase, new avenues to escape and multiply down, and if such is built right, that can add to everyone in the Society. It's just common sense.

    I'm losing it, It's late, I gotta sleep, I gotta provide a closing.

    ANYWAYS.

    The Beginning is the End-So What Do Beast Societies Look Like?

    I know a lot of people, when they make this argument, are thinking of things more akin to Covenants and Orders and Courts, and I know why they do that. And I get it! I love the history and the mythology and the way that these things build and stack into grandiose structures over time and space and how that structures of power that you can tap into and use.

    But it doesn't work for Beast. The priorities of the Eldest hew much smaller, closer, and personal. The thing that would looks most like Beast Societies would be something akin to Krewe Archeytpe, a broad mythological framework that chases after certain forms of Transcendence, explore recurring themes, lessons, and icons, and fosters people within the inevitably shifting strata. Getting deeper into it yields that Beast Societies really look more like packs, krewes, agencies, and the on-field incarnations of Contagion factions, highly involved in the location and time that they are presented in. What's really needed to make a satisfactory Beast Society thing are the sort of tools found in The Pack and Geist: The Sin-Eaters Second Edition.

    And, really, at it's heart, it's rooted in the Brood, in the cadre of misfits gathered together in the mud and shade as a family. The most fundamental block of society for the Begotten is the one we got in the core.

    What Beast needs on the subject is not Five Write-Ups with Cool Names and Stuff, but tools that help people make the Homes that characters will go to at the end of the day, Stories that'll chart their transcendence forward and help them achieve it, and the Wisdom that binds it all together. And it needs its' readers to deal with the text as it is first, and find ways to work in what they want from there, rather shoving the two into each other unsuccessfully.

    There are two side subjects I didn't get to tonight, barring the want to return to my last two points and spruce them up, and those are "Okay, but seriously, what about ancient societies?"(Because I have thoughts and answers to this, suffice it to say I don't think there's no room for such but you gotta play it just right.) and "Okay, but what if I really don't want lessons?"(Because I both have considerations and rebuttals on that subject), but for now, I wanted to at least get this spelled out, to make as clear as I could with my time what I took away from the book and how I translated that into the desires requested.

    So, yeah. That's what I got so far.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 05-01-2019, 03:59 AM.

  • Eternal Darkness
    replied
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

    That's very nice you tried though. Most people just assume a way they think is nice would work but never actually try it

    It works if and only if every Beast character in the chronicle can reasonably work together to feed off of the same targets in a nice, unbroken chain; but that's rare unless they specifically make characters with that in mind. My current game has eight very different Beasts in it, and i couldn't imagine them all trying to get feedings to work for everyone; it'd be a nightmare of convoluted plans that go beyond Machiavellian into sheer absurdity. Every feeding would make the victim feel like he was getting the biblical Job treatment, and that level of 'your life has been utterly demolished, and also you're dead' isn't always or even often called for.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eternal Darkness
    replied
    Double post
    Last edited by Eternal Darkness; 05-16-2019, 03:18 AM. Reason: Double post

    Leave a comment:


  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Originally posted by Eternal Darkness View Post



    This is very true. I have actually tried making Beasts focus on a particular element of their Hunger and originally believed they could only feed on their specific choice of prey, and it made them very narrow and difficult to play, with Beasts afraid to ever use their best abilities even in dangerous situations because Satiety was so hard to come by. They spent so much time setting up elaborate opportunities to feed that they didn't have time for anything else, and the characters became hyperfocused. Someone on this very forum informed me that Beasts didn't have to only feed in their one specifically-chosen way, but that their specific preferred way and method was what fed them best.
    That's very nice you tried though. Most people just assume a way they think is nice would work but never actually try it

    Leave a comment:


  • Eternal Darkness
    replied
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post

    But the big thing about hungers is that beasts decide how to focus that hunger. And if you narrow them down that much, you end up extremely limited and disadvantaged (Prey on predators would be WAY easier to fill than Punish Kinslayers)


    This is very true. I have actually tried making Beasts focus on a particular element of their Hunger and originally believed they could only feed on their specific choice of prey, and it made them very narrow and difficult to play, with Beasts afraid to ever use their best abilities even in dangerous situations because Satiety was so hard to come by. They spent so much time setting up elaborate opportunities to feed that they didn't have time for anything else, and the characters became hyperfocused. Someone on this very forum informed me that Beasts didn't have to only feed in their one specifically-chosen way, but that their specific preferred way and method was what fed them best.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by ganonso View Post

    My only problem with your reasoning is the Hungers are not as they are presented in the text a plot starter similar to the Agendas or the Refinements at least in my experience with players. They are too large for that. The big reason is the text doesn't embrace Beast's crossover nature enough IMHO and so the Hunger is easy to sate while acting a petty asshole and never entering real conflict with anyone;

    It is debatable if Beasts need societies like presented in the Player's Guide but I would argue the Hunger have to be detailled to fill their role. My solution has been to narrow them down and tie them to mythological motif. You Hoard Forbidden Knowledge. You Prey on Predators. You Punish Kinslayers. Thus the Hunger can really drives the plot rather than having you burn someone up for a speeding offense.

    Even the Hive can be the focus of a philosophy/society because the Begotten are like the Mages very apt to embrace astral engineering and experimenting with the Primordial Dream in a "what happens if to a territory if we change/colonize the Hive" way.
    This is also an interesting angle of attack. I'll probably be able to come back to this thread properly on Saturday, so I'll address it then if I do, but this is a good question and I want to immediately credit that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    Originally posted by ganonso View Post

    My only problem with your reasoning is the Hungers are not as they are presented in the text a plot starter similar to the Agendas or the Refinements at least in my experience with players. They are too large for that. The big reason is the text doesn't embrace Beast's crossover nature enough IMHO and so the Hunger is easy to sate while acting a petty asshole and never entering real conflict with anyone;

    It is debatable if Beasts need societies like presented in the Player's Guide but I would argue the Hunger have to be detailled to fill their role. My solution has been to narrow them down and tie them to mythological motif. You Hoard Forbidden Knowledge. You Prey on Predators. You Punish Kinslayers. Thus the Hunger can really drives the plot rather than having you burn someone up for a speeding offense.

    Even the Hive can be the focus of a philosophy/society because the Begotten are like the Mages very apt to embrace astral engineering and experimenting with the Primordial Dream in a "what happens if to a territory if we change/colonize the Hive" way.
    But the big thing about hungers is that beasts decide how to focus that hunger. And if you narrow them down that much, you end up extremely limited and disadvantaged (Prey on predators would be WAY easier to fill than Punish Kinslayers)

    Leave a comment:


  • ganonso
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Someone argue with me.
    My only problem with your reasoning is the Hungers are not as they are presented in the text a plot starter similar to the Agendas or the Refinements at least in my experience with players. They are too large for that. The big reason is the text doesn't embrace Beast's crossover nature enough IMHO and so the Hunger is easy to sate while acting a petty asshole and never entering real conflict with anyone;

    It is debatable if Beasts need societies like presented in the Player's Guide but I would argue the Hunger have to be detailled to fill their role. My solution has been to narrow them down and tie them to mythological motif. You Hoard Forbidden Knowledge. You Prey on Predators. You Punish Kinslayers. Thus the Hunger can really drives the plot rather than having you burn someone up for a speeding offense.

    Even the Hive can be the focus of a philosophy/society because the Begotten are like the Mages very apt to embrace astral engineering and experimenting with the Primordial Dream in a "what happens if to a territory if we change/colonize the Hive" way.

    Leave a comment:


  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    I want to clarify I appreciate the response and intend to answer it, it's just I now have the flesh life demanding attention on several fronts, so it might be a bit.

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  • HelmsDerp
    replied
    This is something I've been meaning to respond to, but I've been working massive amounts of overtime lately and I just don't have enough brain power left over to articulate my thoughts as coherently as I want to. I'm going to try though.

    I have two main points of contention. Firstly, I don't really see Beasts as necessarily having come to grips with their monstrous nature during the Devouring. There's a reason that most of the Inheritances are metaphorically and sometimes literally burnout and suicide, a fractured self forever sacrificing one of its parts to preserve the other. Beast approaches its personal horror differently, but I think there's still a great deal of "what have I become, and am I willing to live like this?"

    The second is I think more a disagreement on semantics than on the fundamental assertion. Yes, you can absolutely frame philosophical assertions as lessons. That's not a wrong way of looking at it. It is not, however, what most people are going to think of when using the word lesson. Given the baggage many people have with abuse framed as "for your own good" there has to be a better way to frame Beasts choosing a central principle to guide their feedings. Yes, Beasts absolutely benefit metaphysically from having a story people can easily share, and stories are most easily made when there's a consistent, easily identifiable and describable pattern, instead of a bunch of barely related random events. Yes, that lends itself to at least simple lessons of "if X then Y" I don't think what people do or don't learn from it needs to be *the* lens applied to Feeding with a purpose and intentionally building a mythology greater than the sum of its parts though.

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Paradim View Post
    Are there any specific positions from your post that you feel iffy on? Any points you want challenged?
    None, which I take initially as a sign that I missed something, so all of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paradim
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Someone argue with me.
    Are there any specific positions from your post that you feel iffy on? Any points you want challenged?

    Leave a comment:


  • LostLight
    replied
    Agh, fine, let's play the Devil's Advocate in here..

    Beast should have societies, all in the terms of Y splat and the benefits it should grant. Sure, Hunger is cool and all, describing how you hunt and what satisfy your darkest needs, but it is a personal thing- very personal, saying the truth. So personal, that it may work better as a Z-splat: why there are only 5 (7, with the BPG)? Because you want them to be basic archetypes, when they could be much more integrated into the nature of the Horror itself? That's too artificial. Each Hunger should be developed personally, an expression of the Beast's inner monstrosity and coming from her own basic urges. If anything, Hunger should be an more flexible, open system, taking the same niche as Kiths, Keys, and Judges. More personal, less archetype, in short.

    Now, while Cults and Seeker factions may be cool and all, they are not good enough- practically any monster can have a cult revolving around it, and sometimes it is a part of their core identity. Vampires have it. Mages have it. Krewes are basically it. Mummies ARE it. Conspiracies, lodges, cabals- even humans can just make up personality cults without anything supernatural about them. Oh, sure, Beasts use those cults to express their primordial nature into the world- but each gameline has its own uses for cults, from having a simple way to feed up to having servants meant to guard your body through the ages and bring you back when you are dead beyond dead. Cults are always useful to someone- that's why they exist. In short, while cool, it is nothing unique to Beast and as such, can't serve as a Y splat on par of covenants, tribes and orders.

    As for the Seekers- it is an interesting direction, but not good enough. Yeah, I got it, some Begotten want to try and find out the truth about their Big Bad Dark Mother, and try to understand what she means to them. Cool, but not enough. First, the Seekers are not a core part of the Beast society- they more or less exist above it, around it and in between it. Chasing Dark Mama is not a core aspect of the life of the Begotten- it is something they may do if and when it aligns with their hunger, and most of them don't devout their very life into it. It exist outside of the Beast's personal journey, and is entirely optional to their lives. It has not real political power or agenda- just a group of people who explore the origin of the darkness in the different ways. Second, They don't seem to be very organized- sure, the Athaneum is more or less structured, but the most? Not really. Beasts seem to hang out together less out of common vision or ideology, and more out of some instinctive attraction to each other. They are bros because they are bros- and that miss something, like giving them a real reason to band together, work together, love together and kill together. And the Dark Mother is not good enough.

    Why, you ask? Well, because the Dark Mother is a god. She is the immortal image of eternal darkness, a monster above and beyond all others, the greatest Horror anyone can imagine. There should be, like one thousand conspiracy theories about who and what the Dark Mother is, and thousands of ways to express and experience her. If we are to simply use the Seekers as Y-splay, and as such make them into a core aspect of the Beast society, we practically say that the Dark Mother is the biggest thing in the life of the Begotten (which is true, but only to some level), and also declare that there are only certain ways you can express and search for her. You also change the entire focus of the game from something which is personal into a game of religious fanatics who do terrible things in the name of their goddess. You could say that this is what the game is also doing right now (which is why Lessons are bad thing and you should feel bad for loving them), but putting Seekers as core aspect would make it the only thing you care about, period.

    And Beasts need society. They are social creatures. They are drawn to each other, search after others like them, trying to create a Family of their choosing. Beast is also a game about dreams, and societies are the expression of dreams which are greater than their dreamers. Perhaps that should be the new Y-splat- Dreams, capital D (no puns in here). The Begotten make structures which bring those Dreams into the world, as the Horror donates its own, personal journey toward Incarnation into something bigger, something more. Dreams manifest (incarnate) themselves into the world through many different social structures- as the Beasts in a certain region band together under a common Dream, they draw it into the world and cause it to form- like an Horror for a full organization. Reminds me an homebrew I once wrote. Perhaps that's where it came from...

    Aaaaanyway, if we follow Dreams as Horrors parallel, perhaps there is a similar mechanic- a group of Begotten band together and summon a Dream in a region. The Dream, in turn, "devours" an existing organization- be it mundane, like a company or such, or supernatural, like a covenant or something. The Dream grants certain benefits and power those those Begotten which called upon it, and certain powers to those who become part of it. Dreams are also conjured spontaneously when Beasts bond together, or that new Beasts may join existing ones. Sure, it sounds somewhat like how Hives and Apexes work, but perhaps being an Apex would be about creating your own "Dream", while the Y-splat Dreams are intentional structure manifested when Beasts wish it into the world. Beasts of different Dreams may band together, but it could cause some dissonance among Dreams, giving strange and exotic effects (connecting things which shouldn't connect is a part of what Beast is, after all).

    That way, you still have your own personal journey and Legend and have something greater than you. Dreams are objective, separate structures existing in the Primordial Dream. Beasts call upon those Dreams by joining together under a common vision which the Dream in question represents. The Dream manifests into reality, devouring and existing organization and transform it into something which express its nature and what the Beasts wish to do. Dreams bleed into each other when Beasts of different Dreams join together. And when the Beasts get tired of a Dream, or they are all purged, the Dream is gone- returning to the Astral until it is called again to the world. And that way, Dreams may be manifested in a number of places in the same time, all under different faces and names, connecting Beasts from across the globe.. or turning them against each other. Who knows what Dreams has in mind, after all?

    .
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    I must say that while it all started as "let's take the opposite side and see what happens", I kinda like the end result. Kinda rough, of course- very rough, even- but maybe something to toy with for later time *shrugs*

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
    what's a tourist
    It's a kind of riceball.

    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
    It is hard to argue with you when I generally agrees with you?
    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
    Why? I agree with you.
    Because I wanted discussion! And gnashing of teeth, admittedly.

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  • Primordial newcomer
    replied
    what's a tourist

    Leave a comment:

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