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  • #16
    You don't want co-location on at all times since others can use it if they have Space Sight or any other way of seeing spatial irises. Relinquishing it also means that you can't shut it off if you'd realise it's a bad move.
    Veiling, well, I'm not sure what you'd want to Veil. That's extremely circumstantial and, again, not something that can be turned off since it's relinquished.

    Either way your theoretical mage will either always walk around buffed through the ceiling as if he's looking for a fight like a D&D murderhobo, or he knows that there will be an encounter (even if he doesn't know exactly what that will be) and thus has spent some time prepping for it.


    Bloodline: The Stygians
    Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
    Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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    • #17
      To chime in on the OP instead of letting the thread turn completely into a Mage strategy argument:

      Beasts Combo Good: Not really sure what to say here other than Beasts are meant to be tier two power-wise. If anything I’m curious what the Mage and Demon were doing, being the tier ones in the group. Were they less built for combat than the Beasts?

      Nightmares vs. Atavisms: Personally I’m with you on this, Atavisms have way more of a “cool” factor in addition to being easier to use at full strength.

      Willpower: If Pathways were the problem here it sounds like they should have been making more use of the places their Chambers were made from (it’s less clear than it should be but you don’t have to pay the WP if you’re in the physical location).

      Satiety Conditions: While Group Beats are still the obvious solution here I again find it curious that the Mage and Demon couldn’t keep up; the former has Arcane Beats and the latter their Agenda Condition. Though between Family Dinner and what sounds like a lot of combat I suppose Satiety was probably in more than enough supply to push the Beasts over the edge on XP gain (gaining Satiety as opposed to losing it is, as you can probably guess, usually the limiting factor on grinding).

      On the not RPing it much front, does that mean they were skipping the “Beat:” clauses (failing a roll while Gorged, etc.) and only relying on resolution? Because if so then they were probably growing slower than they could have been so that was their loss too.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by nalak42 View Post
        Actually I can break this down for you, since its a useful power. (...)
        That was a fantastic explanation, thank you!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Zooroos View Post
          That was a fantastic explanation, thank you!
          No problem.

          Oh another thing that people will occasionally forget, while a Beast is protected from their Lair Traits regardless of whether they caused it or if it just happens they don't get any special perks from dealing with those Tilts unless they've imposed their Lair Trait.(Beast core pg 101) For example a Beast with the Maze trait never suffers disorientation or confusion due to a maze-like environment. However, if I chloroform a minotaur and drop him in the middle of a mirror maze he does not instinctively know how to exit the maze, merely that he would know if he'd crossed an area before and wouldn't be suffering the minus three penalty for being in a maze.

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          • #20
            Yeah, I don’t buy that line, it basically amounts to “The ST has to specifically declare a situation to be a Tilt for you to be immune to it even if it otherwise matches one of your Lair Traits to the T” which is the utmost BS.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              Beasts Combo Good: Not really sure what to say here other than Beasts are meant to be tier two power-wise. If anything I’m curious what the Mage and Demon were doing, being the tier ones in the group. Were they less built for combat than the Beasts?
              I get the power level of Beasts is supposed to be comparatively higher than the rest of the supernaturals, but my impression was there was little the rest of the group could do in combat scenes.
              Now, a caveat: I'm biased about mages. The warlock in the game dominated one enemy and forced him to kill himself, almost killed the PC demon with remote damage spells (only a liberal interpretation of "The Word" exploit saved her metallic ass) and co-located her entire library when threatened by angels. However, he didn't completely outshined the rest of the group in most scenes. I'm willing to concede that my experience might not be the general trend, and I'm actually even more curious than before to see other types of beasts in play.

              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              Nightmares vs. Atavisms: Personally I’m with you on this, Atavisms have way more of a “cool” factor in addition to being easier to use at full strength.
              It seems my impression so far, yeah.

              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              Willpower: If Pathways were the problem here it sounds like they should have been making more use of the places their Chambers were made from (it’s less clear than it should be but you don’t have to pay the WP if you’re in the physical location).
              The Eshmaki PC was the Beast of Gevaudan, the big bad wolf of french history, and his first chamber was in France. He later created a second chamber in a parking lot in New Orleans, and used the connection to travel between USA and France with relative ease. I didn't realize however that there was a specific mechanic for using their chambers to open Primordial Parhways.

              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              Satiety Conditions: While Group Beats are still the obvious solution here I again find it curious that the Mage and Demon couldn’t keep up; the former has Arcane Beats and the latter their Agenda Condition. Though between Family Dinner and what sounds like a lot of combat I suppose Satiety was probably in more than enough supply to push the Beasts over the edge on XP gain (gaining Satiety as opposed to losing it is, as you can probably guess, usually the limiting factor on grinding).
              That's right, it was a combination of low satiety levels, both beast were spoiling for a fight, and the rest didn't make such a heavy use of Conditions. Beasts always have a Condition on them, and just changing Satiety levels allows them to cash in beats. The Mastigos in the group imposed more conditions on others than the ones he suffered himself. The Changeling and the Demon made very little use of conditions, and all of them paid little attention to choosing their Aspirations wisely. And none of them ever tried to botch their rolls. In the end, Satiety Conditions became the dominant mechanic just because it was the easy way.
              And me? I was juggling four corebooks at the same time, so I'm afraid many things slipped past me.

              Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
              On the not RPing it much front, does that mean they were skipping the “Beat:” clauses (failing a roll while Gorged, etc.) and only relying on resolution? Because if so then they were probably growing slower than they could have been so that was their loss too.
              That's exactly what happened, yes.
              Last edited by Zooroos; 06-20-2019, 11:22 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sith_Happens View Post
                Yeah, I don’t buy that line, it basically amounts to “The ST has to specifically declare a situation to be a Tilt for you to be immune to it even if it otherwise matches one of your Lair Traits to the T” which is the utmost BS.
                Well the rule is you don't get supernatural abilities as part of the immunity. That's why I said the minotaur wouldn't instinctively know the way out of a random maze. The example listed in the book was the idea of escaping through an air vent that was too small for the Beast by saying they can become mouse sized to fit through owing to their Lair possessing the Cramped Trait. It doesn't it, say they need to perfectly fit the Lair Trait, excluding things like your Lair Trait being a lesser version a la the difference between a Lair that is a burning building and the a Lair where the fires are causing steel to evaporate.

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