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The devouring and beast origin stories

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  • K9ine
    started a topic The devouring and beast origin stories

    The devouring and beast origin stories

    As I understand it the origin story of every beast is that they were dreaming and a horror ate their soul, but I was always disappointed that nothing lead up to it. It seems to be a chance occurence. Does the beast players guide have a better explaination that expands on beast origin stories?

  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post

    Also beast seems like a make your own monster kit. I figured in the players guide they would have put in a lot of possible backstories so that you could have lots of different kinds of monsters, kind of like mages awaken in different ways.

    They kind of did. The Player's Guide introduces 2 new families in the form of the Inguma (Fear of the Other), and Talassi (Fear of Confinement). As well as new Hungers in the form of Secrets and Transgressions.

    It also introduces the Horrorspawn, which are short lived, miniature versions of your own Horror that you can use as minions to help guard your Lair, or carry out various tasks for you. Their natural life span is roughly a year, possibly longer depending on the spawn's Potency rating.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 09-21-2019, 07:11 PM.

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  • Nyrufa
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    is there a weakness tied to their backstory, etc.
    By default, the answer to that seems to be that "no" the Beast does not have any special inherent weaknesses tied to it. However, the Heroes have the ability to impose weaknesses upon the Beast in the form of Anathema.

    Anathemas are created based on what the Hero has convinced themselves the Beast should be vulnerable to. For example, if the Beast's horror is a basilisk, a Hero might do some research and come to the conclusion that the stench of weasel urine is deadly to them, and the power of Anathema makes it so.

    Another example may include behavioral patterns, such as only going after a specific type of victim, or only attacking people within a specific time frame.

    In other words, the Beast's weakness can be anything the Hero (or ST in this case) deems appropriate to the situation.
    Last edited by Nyrufa; 09-21-2019, 07:01 PM.

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  • Deinos
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    there was a lot of sentiment going around on people (particularly Beast's most vocal critics) about how the Beast and Horror were one and the same, that once the Devouring happened the Beast 150% became their Horror, that's what makes them Beasts, no questions asked
    Yeah. My interpretation was very much that its supposed to be similar to horror=the beast within, devouring = embracing (except its usually the culmination of a preexisting condition).

    But you basically have beasts that become what they are more similar to a mage (fell too deeply asleep/were consumed during an astral journey), similar to a werewolf (its in the blood/favor of the Dark Mother) or more similar to a vampire (initiated by another beast). The similarities are imperfect, because they only resemble other supernaturals, they aren't the same supernatural.

    That being said, I do think I'll have my beast flirt with the notion that they are horror puppetteering a soulless husk around, that is overjoyed to have such a beautiful form when it is such a hideous creature.

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  • Deinos
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post

    Being a mage player I kind of like this, but I wish they had more possibilities. It seems weird that a Makara comes from a dream of a sea monster rather than being related to a real flesh and blood sea monster for instance.
    The larva finds a chamber in the Mists that is sea monster themed, and lo and behold, sea monster. As Building a Legend shows, however, horrors don't have to originate from something that resembles them (an example given was a mage throwing lightning creating nightmares of dragons).

    Where possible, I like to have horrors be close to the originals, though.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    Eeeyergh-

    This is technically correct and incorrect at the same time. The Horror is it's own entity in the same way as your Jungian Shadow or Freudian Id is it's own entity. Just because it has more metaphysical autonomy than the average person's does doesn't make it less an extension of you than not.

    It is and isn't you at the same time.
    My last sentence and "aren't necessarily" are the operative words here. XD

    I only bring this up because, when we only had the corebook, there was a lot of sentiment going around on people (particularly Beast's most vocal critics) about how the Beast and Horror were one and the same, that once the Devouring happened the Beast 150% became their Horror, that's what makes them Beasts, no questions asked. BPG changes that by making it clearer that they're technically separate entities, and that it's entirely up to the player decide what level of relationship the Beast and Horror has.

    But yes, it can vary a lot. Hrm. Kind of reminds me a lot of the Psyche and Shadow in Wraith: the Oblivion now that you put it like that...

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  • ArcaneArts
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post
    Oh also so there isn't any confusion:

    The Beast and the Horror are considered two separate and distinctive entities.

    While both depend on the mutual survival of the other they are still their own entity, with motivations and desires that aren't necessarily shared by the other.
    Eeeyergh-

    This is technically correct and incorrect at the same time. The Horror is it's own entity in the same way as your Jungian Shadow or Freudian Id is it's own entity. Just because it has more metaphysical autonomy than the average person's does doesn't make it less an extension of you than not.

    It is and isn't you at the same time.

    EDIT: Another point on the tangle here:

    As the Horror is a Mother's Land Dreamborn/Anima Mundi Goetia stewed in the collective humanity in the Primordial Dream until it has become a Primordial Dream Horror/Temenos Goetia but with quirks, and it's currently incarnating through the actualization with an individual soul/Onieros, you have an awkward situation where you represent both yourself and a larger fundamental of humanity, and as such you are those people.

    Being a Beast is like....weird metaphor, but run with it: You are an American, so America is you, but you aren't America, but at the same time you could grasp it and make it so you are America, and with that change what it means to be an American.

    There is an odd relationship between where You are not Your Horror, but at the same time Your Horror is You, and because of that you get to say More of What Your Horror is, but not at the cost of the Horror being a big part of Who you Are.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 09-10-2019, 05:16 PM.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Oh also so there isn't any confusion:

    The Beast and the Horror are considered two separate and distinctive entities.

    While both depend on the mutual survival of the other they are still their own entity, with motivations and desires that aren't necessarily shared by the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    If I was playing a game where a beast is the antagonist I would want the players to investigate where the beast came from, what made them a beast, is there a weakness tied to their backstory, etc.
    The weaknesses they have that are tied to their backstory instead of folkloric nonsense a Hero tacked onto them are consistent and threefold:

    1. They're people. They have things they care about, and a lot of those things are more vulnerable than they are or otherwise exist in a state that they are invested in the preservation or advancement of. The Ugallu's hospital-bound brother can be harmed. The Tyrant's election campaign is subject to sabotage. The Captor's principle of letting people who escape her Lair live if they've learnt the right lesson can be exploited.
    2. They need to feed and most of them will prefer to do so without stepping on the first weakness. Messing with their plans to do so will drain their resources and force them to compromise and possibly be more overt.
    3. Their entire upkeep comes with a balancing act that alters their behavior and mobility. A Beast who can move rapidly between their various haunts is vulnerable to mental influence, a Beast who can act as a more personal threat has a harder time getting into their Lair outside of its exact Chambers, and a Beast who doesn't have any special challenges from their Hunger is vulnerable to Heroes laying Anathema.

    ‚Äč
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    Being a mage player I kind of like this, but I wish they had more possibilities. It seems weird that a Makara comes from a dream of a sea monster rather than being related to a real flesh and blood sea monster for instance.
    The dream is a flesh and blood sea monster. It happens to inhabit a psychic dimension where nightmares life, but it's still a concrete monster that finds expression and sustenance through metaphorically-resonant acts.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post

    Also beast seems like a make your own monster kit. I figured in the players guide they would have put in a lot of possible backstories so that you could have lots of different kinds of monsters, kind of like mages awaken in different ways.
    That's not really how Beast works.

    There isn't anything hard-set in the setting or mechanics that really outline various ways a Beast is created. The most that's had is Begotten's retroactive different ideas of what the Devouring actually is, but it's presented as something no one knows for sure, and therefore players and STs can run with it as many ways as they like.

    I'm not sure what else is there to tell aside from the different type of dreams a Beast-in-the-making could have in the lead-up to their Devouring.

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  • K9ine
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchel View Post
    The place where Horrors come from is likewise covered in the PG, in its extended look at the Astral from a Begotten perspective.

    They're Dreamtime fear-goetia transformed by their journey through the realm of legend and language. Parts of the world-soul may host the oldest children if the Dark Mother from which the Families derived. It's weird.
    Being a mage player I kind of like this, but I wish they had more possibilities. It seems weird that a Makara comes from a dream of a sea monster rather than being related to a real flesh and blood sea monster for instance.

    Leave a comment:


  • K9ine
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

    Why, do you prefer having extensive Session 0/Preludes for the players?

    Otherwise I'm not sure why any more elaboration is needed.
    Also beast seems like a make your own monster kit. I figured in the players guide they would have put in a lot of possible backstories so that you could have lots of different kinds of monsters, kind of like mages awaken in different ways.

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    I would rather there be supernatural conditions under which these dreams are attracted, and a more comprehensive mythology on where horror come from.
    The place where Horrors come from is likewise covered in the PG, in its extended look at the Astral from a Begotten perspective.

    They're Dreamtime fear-goetia transformed by their journey through the realm of legend and language. Parts of the world-soul may host the oldest children if the Dark Mother from which the Families derived. It's weird.

    Leave a comment:


  • K9ine
    replied
    Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

    Why, do you prefer having extensive Session 0/Preludes for the players?

    Otherwise I'm not sure why any more elaboration is needed.
    If I was playing a game where a beast is the antagonist I would want the players to investigate where the beast came from, what made them a beast, is there a weakness tied to their backstory, etc.
    Last edited by K9ine; 09-10-2019, 03:41 PM.

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  • tasti man LH
    replied
    Originally posted by K9ine View Post
    I understand beast have dreams first, not really sure how to make an interesting multifaceted orgin story out of that.
    Why, do you prefer having extensive Session 0/Preludes for the players?

    Otherwise I'm not sure why any more elaboration is needed.

    Leave a comment:

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