Another Princess: the Hopeful, Beast: the Primordial thread,

[Konradleijon]

I read the Princess core book and loved all of it, I’m wondering about the a crossover game between them.

Or more likely a story idea or even Fan-fiction I could write. Cause no one I know play TTRPGs)That will probably include weird NSFW stuff,

[Dusksage]

Ah, I see what you are trying to say now. And that is one of the big hurdles for trying to incorporate Princess into any crossover game, especially Beast since they are in a lot of ways more diametrically opposed forces than even Beasts and Heroes (who I personally see as more reflections of the other and their role in the collective soul of humanity.)

To that end, probably the best solution I can think of is focusing on the human aspects of the two's relationships. The Begotten and Nobles are still both people first, and either connecting characters or touchstones would be a way to facilitate peaceful coexistence first, with all the splat centric cultural baggage being good drama fodder for both characters.

[TerrorCooper]

The point I was trying to being up was that if someone wanted to approach Princess and Beast for crossover purposes then using their connections to dreams could be a potential resource. Particularly since both splats supernatural natures are directly shaped by human dreams and belief.

These are both creatures who's natures are tied to the Astral Realm. This can lead to common group if the storyteller uses it creatively.

I know, I know, I was simply pointing out a potential complication the ST could toss in. As in, there's a group of BBEGs (such as a group of Beasts with the Ravager Hunger allied with a particularly 'open-minded' cell of Storm-Wracked), or a lone BBEG (like an Insatiable backed by the Darkness for whatever reason), that only the combined skill-sets of Begotten and Hopeful could deal with. And one of the hurdles is to help the Nobles get past their usual hangups about the Children! I mean, Fear and Utopia? Does that sound like a common combo to you? Like, at all?

We already have a huge thread that goes quite in depth on that topic. You commented on it, if I recall.

I wasn't trying to drag that discussion here, so apologies for the misunderstanding.

[Dusksage]

The point I was trying to being up was that if someone wanted to approach Princess and Beast for crossover purposes then using their connections to dreams could be a potential resource. Particularly since both splats supernatural natures are directly shaped by human dreams and belief.

These are both creatures who's natures are tied to the Astral Realm. This can lead to common group if the storyteller uses it creatively.

[ArcaneArts]

We already have a huge thread that goes quite in depth on that topic. You commented on it, if I recall.

[TerrorCooper]

Assuming that the Nobles are able to get past the fact that Beasts have to hurt people, no matter what. Still, in such a situation, at least the Begotten try to minimise the harm they do and divert what harm they can't stop to a somewhat productive end (namely teaching people to suppass their fear or at least channel it into something productive).

I'm not opposing you, Dusksage, just trying to point out a potential flaw.

[Dusksage]

Another angle to consider for Crossover is that the Begotten and Hopeful are both connected to, and more importantly shaped by, the dreams of humanity. A Beast's horror is a literal nightmare, a shared symbol of a "lizard brain" fear that's given meaning and context through shared stories and symbolism. A Princess is endowed with the power and aspect of a utopian or paragon ideal, one that gives them tremendous power at the cost of needing to foster said ideal and it's tenants in the hearts and minds of *everyone* they cross, else they wither away and either die or be consumed by their own inability to make a change for the better in the world.

In other words, both are given roles they *must* play by the world they live in. Which means, on some level they could easily empathize with one another and bonds could form. It wouldn't be easy, but making lasting connections never is.

[Heavy Arms]

Or just listen to the Beast when it tries to explain itself enough to decide to watch it rather than kill it.

It's super easy for most Beasts to demonstrate that they're holding back, and they have access to lots of bonuses to at least have a chance to get a few sentences in even with a different supernatural that's inclined negatively towards them.

[TerrorCooper]

I feel like one of the main things to play around with is the relationship (real or perceived by people in-universe) between the Darkness and the Dark Mother.

I remeber reading somewhere on either these forums or RPGnet Forums that one possible view that Beasts could have on the Darkness was of an Insatiable that somehow managed to acquire a truly massive Lair.

Another antagonistic stance that Begotten could take (that I just came up with), is that the Darkness doesn't teach anyone any actual lessons, and thusly goes against the Dark Mother's wishes.

Of course, these are just two possible ideas of how this relationship could be fashioned. It all comes down to you, Konradleijon, and how you want your story to play out.

Why wouldn't Princess society accept that a Beast is trying to do some good? A Beast's lessons is self-serving, but it's self-serving in a potentially good way from the outside perspective of other things that can appreciate the damage Beasts are capable of doing.

I agree, on the stipulation that a Noble would have to be able to appreciate just what would happen if a Begotten's Horror went unfed for too long (as in, long enough to reach satiety 0). At least, via their Lessons, Beasts can at least try to limit the harm they do in a way that's at least somewhat constructive.

[Voytek]

I feel like one of the main things to play around with is the relationship (real or perceived by people in-universe) between the Darkness and the Dark Mother.

[TerrorCooper]

I read the Princess core book and loved all of it, I’m wondering about the a crossover game between them.

Or more likely a story idea or even Fan-fiction I could write. Cause no one I know play TTRPGs)That will probably include weird NSFW stuff,

There are several Story Hook idea threads scattered across these forums. My advise is to go through them, jot down those you like (and elements of those you partially (dis)like), and then try weaving those together into a possible story, adding your own ideas, modifications, alterations and so on, and doing the same thing with removals and changes, until you’ve come up with a story. Or at least the Premise for one that you can use as a springboard.

Note, however, that I’m still working on my first fanfic and my only experience with tabletop rpgs is a couple attempts at a single module that didn’t make it that far into the first session due to both the idiocy of my brothers and their inability to take anything with an actual amount of proper seriousness. And I’m a low-level(-ish) Autistic. What I’m saying is, is that you should take my advice with a pinch or two of salt.

[Kalzky]

Also, Princess society is...like, 60 percent "we grouped up for safety and effectiveness in numbers", 20 percent "Actual Internet Memes", and the final 20 is faint memories of The Kingdom+shared dreamlands. Probably has less organization or hard "rules" then Werewolf Tribes.

[ArcaneArts]

I've done my time on this subject.

There's a whole lot more nuance that has come up since then, but I'd honestly rather translate that into other things.

[Heavy Arms]

Why wouldn't Princess society accept that a Beast is trying to do some good? A Beast's lessons is self-serving, but it's self-serving in a potentially good way from the outside perspective of other things that can appreciate the damage Beasts are capable of doing.

The whole "stop or we'll hurt you" is self-serving non-sense too. It just presumes that Princesses only response to Beasts will be to come up with justifications to kill them just for existing. Beasts can't stop (or they die), they can only try to direct the harm they cause in some productive fashion (or help other supernaturals cause harm to people). This is like telling a vampire that subsists off of bagged blood to stop because blood bags are important to medical practice... but that only leaves the vampire the option of feeding off people with the inherent risk of losing control and doing serious if not fatal harm. It's not "accepting Beasts for what they are," it's just a predicate for justifying killing them off.

[vernuf]

With difficulty. To go to the Superman-Batman example above, Superman is generally eventually able to accept that Batman has limits that Superman doesn't that lead him to fight criminals the way he does. He's able to accept Batman is really trying to do some good and that he's put a lot of thought into doing that good.

Now Princess society... it doesn't accept that about Beasts. A Beast explains Lessons... Just self-serving nonsense. A Beast has to feed on fear or a terrible fear monster will run amuck? Stop or we'll hurt you. Now individual Princesses can certainly buck that trend, but the rest of their society is not going to accept it and is going to pressure the ones who do accept Beasts for what they are to conform.