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Any chance of a Beast rewrite/reboot?

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  • Originally posted by Paradim View Post


    Here's the thing.... You think there's a difference. But there isn't, not really.

    Now... Because Beast: The Primordial can get into some heavy topics, I'm going to toss a couple useful links....

    A Primer on Safety in Roleplaying Games.

    S
    afety Tools

    These are just a start, but there are ideas that can be very useful in helping keep things safe and sane at the table. I particularly like making use of the "Rewind", "Pause" and "Fast Forward" concepts. Sometimes a scene needs to be taken back and go a different direction. Sometimes a scene just needs a "Fade To Black" to happen. I haven't regretted encouraging players to have more narrative control over a scene. It helps them be comfortable, it helps things stay safe. I invite players to accept "Bad Things" happening to their characters, but on terms they're consenting to (Like uh... "And the monster shows up and does something horrible! Who wants a Beat to tell us what horrible thing the monster does and how your character reacts negatively to it?")

    It helps.
    I appreciate you pointing me in the direction of those. For my part it's not that Beast is a "trigger" so much as that it's just "not my cuppa." And when I backed the Kickstarter I really thought it would be "my cuppa." I don't despise Beast and I can see how playing a Beast would be "fun" for others inclined to do so (however you choose to define that word). I can also see that there are takes and tweaks that could be applied to make it more my cuppa. That all said, I've pretty much moved away from CoD, though I haven't deserted Onyx Path completely. I'm still pretty huge into Trinity Continuum.

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    • Originally posted by johntfs View Post
      That all said, I've pretty much moved away from CoD, though I haven't deserted Onyx Path completely.
      Why this thread, then?

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      • Originally posted by Paradim View Post

        Why this thread, then?
        Because it'd be nice if there was a rewrite/reboot so the game would be "more my cuppa." While I've moved away from CoD for now, I might well come back at some point.

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        • Originally posted by johntfs View Post

          Because it'd be nice if there was a rewrite/reboot so the game would be "more my cuppa." While I've moved away from CoD for now, I might well come back at some point.
          Promises to keep.

          I'm smiling wide.


          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
          Feminine pronouns, please.

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          • Originally posted by johntfs View Post

            Because it'd be nice if there was a rewrite/reboot so the game would be "more my cuppa." While I've moved away from CoD for now, I might well come back at some point.
            So...thanks again for wasting everyone's time for 8 pages to make that egotistical declaration.

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            • Originally posted by tasti man LH View Post

              So...thanks again for wasting everyone's time for 8 pages to make that egotistical declaration.
              I don't see it time wasted. There was a pretty good discussion. Still, you are sooper-dooper-ooper-pooper welcome.

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              • While I agree that the occasion for this thread is somewhat dubious, I think all in all it did quite some good things.
                I haven't participated, but I have been lurking as I usually do, and I have read quite a few very well-made and well-put posts, some of which even helped me to better put some things into words, partly due to some people (*cough*Arcane*cough* ~) here being far more eloquent in English than I'll ever be and having a keen insight into the game and the concepts. Points have been made, common misconceptions addressed in old and new ways, problems analyzed, both in regards to people's reading & tastes as well as the game itself (even I agree that there are a lot of problems with Beast as it is right now, and it is likely my favourite CoD-splat), core concepts encapsulated - if I ever have to talk with someone thinking Beast is "Abuser - the Game", much of this thread will be the backbone of the discussion.
                For all the food for thought, ideas, examples, patience, time invested to address all these outdated preconceptions in a manner ranging from professional to exposing, clarifying moments and not just a few smiles, I want to say "Thank You!" to:
                ArcaneArts Paradim FallenEco Professor Phobos Satchel HelmsDerp nalak42 Heavy Arms

                Your efforts here were definitely not wasted.


                ~it's a compliment!

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                • Here's another kind of odd question, are there any "high-tier" antagonists in Beast. I admit I'm coming at this mostly from an NWoD 1.0 perspective, but I noticed that with each splat there are usually three basic tiers of enemy/opposition. Tier I is mortals. Hunters for Vampires/Werewolves. Fetches for Changelings. Heroes for Beast. Tier I is people. Maybe people with special knowledge or ability, but still people. They're dangerous in groups, but generally a groups of supers can hand them their asses unless special circumstances apply (a Kindred coterie getting attacked during the day, etc). Tier II is equal opposition. The Pure for Werewolves. Belial's Brood for Vampires. Seers of the Throne for Mages. They're either corrupted/enemy members of the splat or just regular members of the splat or a different one who oppose the PCs: an NPC vampire coveting the PCs' territory, a Mage who hates vampires. Basically an opponent who is a relative equal. Tier III is the "fuck-off powerful" level. These are the one that make the PCs feel like Tier I by comparison. the True Fae for Changeling, the Idigam for Werewolf, presumably (haven't gotten much into V:tR 2.0) the Strix for vampires. These are beings who will likely hand the PCs their asses unless they apply some "special circumstances." The closest thing I see to that for Beast are the Beast Incarnate, but I wonder if there's something more.

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                  • Originally posted by johntfs View Post
                    Here's another kind of odd question, are there any "high-tier" antagonists in Beast. I admit I'm coming at this mostly from an NWoD 1.0 perspective, but I noticed that with each splat there are usually three basic tiers of enemy/opposition. Tier I is mortals. Hunters for Vampires/Werewolves. Fetches for Changelings. Heroes for Beast. Tier I is people. Maybe people with special knowledge or ability, but still people. They're dangerous in groups, but generally a groups of supers can hand them their asses unless special circumstances apply (a Kindred coterie getting attacked during the day, etc). Tier II is equal opposition. The Pure for Werewolves. Belial's Brood for Vampires. Seers of the Throne for Mages. They're either corrupted/enemy members of the splat or just regular members of the splat or a different one who oppose the PCs: an NPC vampire coveting the PCs' territory, a Mage who hates vampires. Basically an opponent who is a relative equal. Tier III is the "fuck-off powerful" level. These are the one that make the PCs feel like Tier I by comparison. the True Fae for Changeling, the Idigam for Werewolf, presumably (haven't gotten much into V:tR 2.0) the Strix for vampires. These are beings who will likely hand the PCs their asses unless they apply some "special circumstances." The closest thing I see to that for Beast are the Beast Incarnate, but I wonder if there's something more.
                    Well one as a crossover game, you of course have everyone else's* and possible mismatches. Using an OWoD example the Beghotten are as screwed against Cain, Lilith, or the Wyrm as anyone else. If we're talking antagonists that were introduced explicitly in Beast (a fair question) you have the Insatiables as a potential threat. On the low end and Insatiable is gonna be around even ground with one of the Beghotten, of course your older ones or more skilled will also have managed to take over other Beasts which adds those fun little complications to the mix. Your big ones are somewhat more of an age thing. Heroes who have been around a long time and have killed a number of Beasts have a plethora of advantages to apply, the same goes for the older Insatiables, and as you've mentioned an Incarnate (or really any Beast that has managed to claim an Inheritance that isn't the Erasure is gonna be a pain,) and to add the Inverted to the mix

                    Wormwood, glad you got something out of it. Yeah no one is going to argue its a perfect game and even now the core could use another pass for revision to clarify some things. (Hence why we tend to recommend the Player's Guide as important reading.) But yeah it is nowhere near the game I have heard some of the complaints about.

                    *Technically this can apply to any Chronicles game, but I feel like Beast being intended as the crossover splat has more claim to that. IE yes a vampire isn't going to fair well in a fight against one of the True Fey, but you don't really play Vampire expecting to have to fight the True Fey. Beghotten are meant to have kin and other splats are a useful/big part of the experience so a Beghotten with Changeling kin are gonna have to accept the probability of fighting True Fey at some point.

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                    • Incarnates, Astral Gods

                      It's worth noting that functionally Heroes are supposed to be your Tier 2. Whether or not that's fulfilled is a debate for another thread.


                      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                      Feminine pronouns, please.

                      Comment


                      • It seems worth noting the Insatiable on top of things like Incarnates as high level Beast antagonists.

                        Of course... one of the main catch phrases of the game is, "No Neat Boxes," which is why it's not as easy to slot Beast antagonists into "tiers" like that.

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                        • There's a lot of hostility in this thread and I'm honestly not sure who started it. But I think we'd have a more pleasant online experience if this thread was locked.


                          Onyx Path Forum Moderator
                          Please spare a thought for updating the Exalted wiki.

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