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[Fan-remake] [Resurrection] Beast: the Monomyth

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Krat05 View Post

    This is my first exposure to the phrase "pooping in the punchbowl" & I assumed that it had just been conjured from out of the air. I apologize for this assumption.
    In other news, I'm aware that my previous post here is a bit thin in places & plan to possibly flesh it out at some point.
    Cool! Great!

    EDITED: Better to be mum, I guess.
    Last edited by ArcaneArts; 05-22-2020, 11:59 PM.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
    Feminine pronouns, please.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Krat05 View Post

      One, if you don't like the material don't use it. There isn't a single legitimate reason to not make something like this.
      Two, I like the idea of Creeds & feel they are an angle of the Begotton that very much needs to be explored.
      Three, Begotten are not free to do or not do whatever they want without societal baggage. No one is, the Begotten's concerns just take a different shape.
      Four (& this really needs to brought up), "pooping in the punchbowl"? What the hell? Why would you subject us to such gross imagery?
      1. I actually said the opposite of this. i do like it. I just personally feel like it'd be better set to a different game built around its themes and structure rather than trying to make Beast fit that mold.
      2. Again, i never said i don't like Creeds. I just don't think Beast needs them. Reason: In my personal experience (Bolded for later reference) Hunger, Legend and just your character's own personal issues provide plenty to hang a solid character concept on in actual play - and i have played a great deal of Beast since the game released.
      3. As far as supernatural society pressure on the level of Vampires, Werewolves, Mages or any other splat Beasts factually have less of that to deal with. The largest social unit of Beasts one typically finds is a Brood unless they dip a toe into other supernatural societies' doings.
      4. Nah it really doesn't. It's a euphemism and i'm not interested in debating whether or not something grossed you out.

      Anyhow - i am not saying any of the great ideas CrapCarp wrote up there are objectively bad. I like it quite a lot actually, but i must reiterate it just...doesn't feel like the Beast i've grown to love. It could be a version of Beast, but if it were hypothetically changed this drastically it'd be such a different game that it wouldn't be the same 'build your own monster and find a niche in the supernatural world' game that we have today. I like that my Beast who spends his time playing kindred politics can do that without worrying about neglecting duties to his own supernatural society's politics (This is a thing i have a Beast character doing right now).

      And perhaps there we hit on a solution. Maybe make the Creeds have some built-in mechanism to allow Beasts to be a part of them and another society at the same time? That would be very in-theme for Beast and it is not unprecedented - Carthian Vampires get a merit that does similar. I just feel like the Creeds need to be less 'monolithic organization' and more 'Defined set of beliefs'.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Eternal Darkness View Post
        So i'm going to be the guy pooping in the punchbowl.
        You're not the guy pooping in the punchbowl (and I'll get to her later). You're simply presenting a critique that, while I disagree with it for reasons I'll get into further in the post, is brought up in a respectable manner. This is much appreciated.

        Originally posted by Eternal Darkness View Post
        I don't want an upcoming edition of Beast to have a z-splat, or force beasts to pick an arbitrary 'creed' belief system. Beasts are free from morality meters and mandatory social groupings (because they are basically mandatory when they come with huge benefits) and are free to do or not do whatever they want without societal baggage. This would be great - for another game.

        Keep Beast free. Stop trying to make it just another XYZ splat. Let it be unique.
        One thing to remember: Monomyth is made to be its own game.

        It is not a "second edition" of Primordial, it's a different take on the same basic concepts. Like I said in the OP, I'm making Monomyth primarily because I just don't like Primordial. But hey, the world wasn't made for me so if you like and play Primordial, that's fine. I love a lot of its concepts, though. So that's why I'm making my own version of it and I'm sharing it because I don't think I'm alone in thinking that.

        The main reason I made Creeds was to enhance Monomyth's ability to stand as its own game without the need for crossover. While I do wanna have crossover potentiality in Monomyth, I don't want it to be the only viable option.

        Originally posted by Eternal Darkness View Post
        Anyhow - i am not saying any of the great ideas CrapCarp wrote up there are objectively bad. I like it quite a lot actually, but i must reiterate it just...doesn't feel like the Beast i've grown to love. It could be a version of Beast, but if it were hypothetically changed this drastically it'd be such a different game that it wouldn't be the same 'build your own monster and find a niche in the supernatural world' game that we have today. I like that my Beast who spends his time playing kindred politics can do that without worrying about neglecting duties to his own supernatural society's politics (This is a thing i have a Beast character doing right now).
        Concerning that, Monomyth can actually have that pretty easily. While I haven't made a write-up on it, there's some Wanderers (Creed-less Beasts) that do exactly what you describe. Rather than getting into any of the Creeds, they just ingratiate themselves in other supernatural societies. Usually this is because they have a bond to a supernatual(s) that belong to that society or there are none/few fellow Beasts around their area but plenty of other supernaturals instead. The term I have for them at the mo' is the Adopted or Adoptees, 'cause they've been "adopted" by Cousins, basically.

        Originally posted by Eternal Darkness View Post
        And perhaps there we hit on a solution. Maybe make the Creeds have some built-in mechanism to allow Beasts to be a part of them and another society at the same time? That would be very in-theme for Beast and it is not unprecedented - Carthian Vampires get a merit that does similar. I just feel like the Creeds need to be less 'monolithic organization' and more 'Defined set of beliefs'.
        The House of Nox does just this as a means of being ambassadors to other supernatural groups. Creeds are already more "defined set of beliefs" than "monolithic organization" because strong beliefs and convictions can actually affect their nature. Beasts are creatures of nightmares and horror concepts, after all.

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        • #19
          Right, I figured out what I was saying about liking Creeds earlier.
          In the base game there's these factions, the Athenaeum, the Empusae, the Guardian Beasts, & the Dominae. Now I have trouble remembering these factions, they feel tacked on to the game, I can't tell what the positives & negatives to being part of these factions are, & I don't actually know what they are all about. I think one of them is about being on the top of the food chain, but that's all I got.
          The Creeds, in my opinion, fill the same basic hole in Begotten society, there are clear positives & negatives to being part of one of them, & the way they're presented they don't feel tacked on at all.

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          • #20
            Well-articulated points, CrapCarp. But i have one small bone of contention: It has not in any way been my experience that crossover is the only way to play Beast. In the...dozen or so games i've played a Beast or run Beast stories, crossover has more often than not been a side thing to their own stories, the exceptions being the games where crossover was the point (Chat games) and games where i have played a Beast in games focused around other supers. I don't actually understand what people mean when they say Beast can't stand on its own; is it because they don't have the built-in and tightly-defined intrasplat politics and conflicts that come with having Z-Splats like Covenants, Tribes/Lodges, Courts/Freehold, etc? I just don't get why people have such a hard time coming up with those levels of complexity on their own when it isn't premade for them. Actually what i'd like to see (either fan-made or official) is some solid templates for building your own Beast Z-Splats. A toolkit rather than premade groupings that may not even work for your particular setting.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eternal Darkness View Post
              Well-articulated points, CrapCarp. But i have one small bone of contention: It has not in any way been my experience that crossover is the only way to play Beast. In the...dozen or so games i've played a Beast or run Beast stories, crossover has more often than not been a side thing to their own stories, the exceptions being the games where crossover was the point (Chat games) and games where i have played a Beast in games focused around other supers. I don't actually understand what people mean when they say Beast can't stand on its own; is it because they don't have the built-in and tightly-defined intrasplat politics and conflicts that come with having Z-Splats like Covenants, Tribes/Lodges, Courts/Freehold, etc? I just don't get why people have such a hard time coming up with those levels of complexity on their own when it isn't premade for them. Actually what i'd like to see (either fan-made or official) is some solid templates for building your own Beast Z-Splats. A toolkit rather than premade groupings that may not even work for your particular setting.
              Well, I haven't come up with any Z-splats for Monomyth Beasts at this time. I have an idea for them, but I'm uncertain about whether to implement them or not. That said, when you speak of Covenants, Tribes, and Courts as Z-splats, I think you mean Y-splats. Y-splats are the social factions a character can sign up to and leave from. Z-splats are like an optional broad specialization a character can develop, like vampire Bloodlines, mage Legacies, and changeling Entitlements (Refinements are arguably the Promethean equivalent, since they're not really social factions; and werewolf Lodges are more like a second Y-splat).

              All that said, while anyone can come up with social factions for their Primordial games like you have, it isn't as easy if you don't have something premade to work with. So it isn't so much as Monomyth strictly needing social factions for political shenanigans as it's simply easier to create when you've got some base ideas to spring from.

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              • #22
                I much preferred the Adversaries, Draumaturges, Gargoyles, Nemeses, Usurpers, Devils, Kinslayers, and Scourges thing of the original proposition, so that you could Monomyth in a more setting-agnostic way.
                Last edited by Deinos; 05-31-2020, 09:22 AM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Deinos View Post
                  I much preferred the Adversaries, Draumaturges, Gargoyles, Nemeses, Usurpers, Devils, Kinslayers, and Scourges thing of the original proposition, so that you could Monomyth in a more setting-agnostic way.
                  The main reason I came up with Creeds in the first place was to provide social hierarchies and political interplay. The first iteration didn't really provide that and they felt like half-baked ideas than actual social factions. Tying them to feeding exclusively also limited their scope and variety. So I fleshed them out and based them as an alternative to the Monomyth. Adversaries became the College of Agony; Dramaturges became the House of Nox; Gargoyles and Nemeses became the Black Guard; Devils became the Devil's Clergy; Scourges became the Cackling Fiends. Kinslayers became a type of Wanderer, since they would rarely, if ever, work together.

                  That said, there's no reason you can't just ditch the Creeds for a more setting-agnostic feel if you wanna do that. You don't even have to change the setting at all to do that. Just run a game where the brood is isolated from the rest of supernatural society, like in a remote rural town or something. Forcing the characters to feel out their condition with no recorded knowledge or tutelage can serve as a neat basis for a chronicle.

                  In other news, I've got a Discord server for discussing Monomyth: https://discord.gg/3SSr59

                  I've also made some images:



                  Last edited by crapcarp; 06-17-2020, 04:10 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                    Welp. I tried kids. I really did. I really wanted us to just ignore the same old shit storm. But here we are. This thread exists, and as always, it has defenders.
                    If you don't think your fellow posters want you in a thread and are going to be unwelcome due to coarse, crude, and rude language--maybe you should step out of it.

                    I strongly encourage it.



                    Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                      If you don't think your fellow posters want you in a thread and are going to be unwelcome due to coarse, crude, and rude language--maybe you should step out of it.

                      I strongly encourage it.
                      You are late by a little more than a month, but duly noted all the same.


                      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                      Feminine pronouns, please.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                        You are late by a little more than a month, but duly noted all the same.
                        Eh, I go where the reports go.


                        Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post

                          Eh, I go where the reports go.
                          That's it's own bag of worms, but understandable.

                          As far of the rest of the post goes, anything of note?
                          Last edited by ArcaneArts; 06-23-2020, 07:56 PM.


                          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                          Feminine pronouns, please.

                          Comment

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