Point 1 starts out by misrepresenting the opposing argument, as is par for the course, but setting aside the false claim that all in favor of kinship as family think every player has to agree, yes kinship is mechanically optional. It is however mechanically incentivized through family dinner, kinship nightmares, kinship merits, etc.
Point 2... where do I even start? If we can provide one problematic example of [thing] then [thing] is Problematic and Needs To Be Fixed? How does one seriously put that argument forth in Chronicles of Darkness?
Vampires can use Dominate to enslave people. Guess we better rewrite Vampire!
Changelings can spy on people's dreams, that's a complete violation of privacy! Guess we better...!
This is an entire fictional world built on the premise that you are playing the monster and you have plenty of options to engage in monstrous behavior. Exploring those themes is the point of the setting. Beast is more on the nose about it than most but honestly after years of these discussions what seems to be the major distinction is that Beast has more direct mechanical rewards for engaging in those behaviors (and conversely mechanical punishments for avoiding them) and the punishments for being a terrible person are more indirect and narrative in nature (as are the rewards for avoiding them). That's it. The toolkit for being awful isn't any more robust, the characters around you aren't any more or less likely to be ok with your behavior.
A version of Beast where you don't have to wrestle with the fact that sometimes kinship isn't wanted, that feelings aren't reciprocated is an inherently lesser experience.
I can imagine as a thought experiment a version of Vampire where Humanity is tied to how full up on blood you are, where essentially Blush of Life is a passive ongoing effect. I can see how it might lead to somewhat more monstrously amoral behavior. Do you really think it would be that much more unpalatable than Vampire as it currently stands though? To me it just looks like more of what was already there.
Point 2... where do I even start? If we can provide one problematic example of [thing] then [thing] is Problematic and Needs To Be Fixed? How does one seriously put that argument forth in Chronicles of Darkness?
Vampires can use Dominate to enslave people. Guess we better rewrite Vampire!
Changelings can spy on people's dreams, that's a complete violation of privacy! Guess we better...!
This is an entire fictional world built on the premise that you are playing the monster and you have plenty of options to engage in monstrous behavior. Exploring those themes is the point of the setting. Beast is more on the nose about it than most but honestly after years of these discussions what seems to be the major distinction is that Beast has more direct mechanical rewards for engaging in those behaviors (and conversely mechanical punishments for avoiding them) and the punishments for being a terrible person are more indirect and narrative in nature (as are the rewards for avoiding them). That's it. The toolkit for being awful isn't any more robust, the characters around you aren't any more or less likely to be ok with your behavior.
A version of Beast where you don't have to wrestle with the fact that sometimes kinship isn't wanted, that feelings aren't reciprocated is an inherently lesser experience.
I can imagine as a thought experiment a version of Vampire where Humanity is tied to how full up on blood you are, where essentially Blush of Life is a passive ongoing effect. I can see how it might lead to somewhat more monstrously amoral behavior. Do you really think it would be that much more unpalatable than Vampire as it currently stands though? To me it just looks like more of what was already there.
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