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Is Pennywise a beast or slasher.

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  • Is Pennywise a beast or slasher.

    no idea what lessons he teaches but.



  • #2
    Insatiable.


    Resident Lore-Hound
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    • #3
      Agree with Satchel.


      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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      • #4
        I will remind you PotN that lessons are unnecessary for a Beghotten to actually function, its just something a number of Beasts do.

        I don't know Slashers. so can't say anything about that. I am with Satchel and Penelope though in that It/Pennywise/The Deadlights/Bob Gray/The Spider is probably closer to an Insatiable than one of the Beghotten. The fears it operate on tend to be more irrational, note in the book it attacked as a werewolf and the giant claw at one point, and that part of its function in Derry seems to have been the near complete apathy towards the events going on and some other things. Add in that the shapeshifting and occasionally dragging through of monster into the flesh state isn't something a Beghotten's atavisms actually do in that manner and you've got more of a leaning towards the Insatiables and their moments as opposed to Beghottens even at the level of Incarnates.

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        • #5
          I'll buck the trend slightly:

          Pennywise is an Unfettered Horror. My primary reasoning for this (since it's not like a high powered Unfettered and an Insatiable are that different to deal with) is that Pennywise is still very connected to humanity in a way the Insatiable generally aren't. As a former Begotten, a lot of how It functions makes sense as a being that used to be a high Lair Beast who was killed using the Ritual of Chud while Slumbering.

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          • #6
            I tend to be a fan of the cosmic horror aspect of Pennywise (Spider, Turtle, Dark Tower, and all that) and so my CofD translation for IT always makes me pick Idigam as my favorite choice, but gotta agree Insatiable is a valid alternative.

            Edit: In fact, for a shameless self-promotion, here's this thing I wrote back when the first of the recent IT movies happened: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ise-the-idigam
            Last edited by Cinder; 10-21-2020, 09:16 PM.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cinder View Post
              I tend to be a fan of the cosmic horror aspect of Pennywise (Spider, Turtle, Dark Tower, and all that) and so my CofD translation for IT always makes me pick Idigam as my favorite choice, but gotta agree Insatiable is a valid alternative.

              Edit: In fact, for a shameless self-promotion, here's this thing I wrote back when the first of the recent IT movies happened: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...ise-the-idigam
              A point I often wonder about, but seldom commented upon by Stephen King fans, is the similarity between Pennywise and Rose Madder, making me wonder if she was, at least something very much like that creature, if not the same thing.

              Edit: Could a case be made for Pennywise as one of The Gentry?
              Last edited by Van Owen; 10-21-2020, 08:34 PM.

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              • #8
                These are all good ideas.


                “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her. She/her (I saw the Chief Technology Officer for a big company do this so I guess I’ll do it too).

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                • #9
                  Now, murderclowns as a concept is not that uncommon, but the form Pennywise usually takes is that of a genuine clown and there is something inherently contradictory in a creature in a form supposed to inspire laughter to feed on fear. Thus Pennywise/It could work as a Gulmoth that is weak to being forced into recognisable narratives/story tropes by the main characters.

                  My preferred take would still be a Beast/Insatiable, but it doesn't mesh well with the Pennywise/It dichotomy. They're definitely the same creature in one way or another, but they're also two different manifestations of that creature. For It as an ephemeral being, Pennywise could definitely be some type of Royal Avatar (or possibly Herald in case of an Idigam), but afaik nothing like that exists in BtP. But it's far from the game I know the best so I might be wrong.


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                  • #10
                    The form of Pennywise and It in general makes sense in a Beast context as an Inguma (closely followed by Namtaru). Their whole thing is the fear of the other... which is the core theme of the story. The whole point of Pennywise is to be a form that's unusual enough to draw a bit of attention from potential victims, but seems safe and fun until it's too late.... something the Inguma excel at.

                    As for the ephemeral being part, that's why I brought up It being an Unfettered Horror. At some point It's human body was killed, leaving the Horror free to operate as an ephemeral being. A Beast with a high Lair rating and perhaps the Legendary Horror Merit can easily end up with a Rank 4+ Unfettered Horror that still has a human-ish intelligence. Its Ban is related to its Hunger before the Inheritance kicked in, thus it maintains the Pennywise manifestation, and if the original Beast died with the Ritual of Chud as an Anathema on it, it would get incorporated into the Unfettered's Bane.

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                    • #11
                      Couldnt it also be an incarnate though? Pennywise has not only the Myth, but also the power and flexibility (and yet, inflexibility due to upholding the Myth) to be a particularly successful Inarnate

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
                        Couldnt it also be an incarnate though? Pennywise has not only the Myth, but also the power and flexibility (and yet, inflexibility due to upholding the Myth) to be a particularly successful Inarnate
                        I'd considered that, but the problem is Pennywise isn't really a known entity. There aren't any legends or rumors about the clown or any of its forms, save legends pertaining to forms it steals from an individuals fears, Derry isn't really aware It exists and since it lacks tendrils or a connection outside Derry, that does kind of hinder the master of its own Legend thing for Incarnates.

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                        • #13
                          That was my thinking as well when considering a Begotten that had reached on of the Inheritances as well.

                          The idea that people that leave Derry quickly forget about It is very rough of the Myth side of things. It prefers to corrupt the town unseen to ensure it stays a perfect feeding ground rather than exposing Its nature directly.

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