Tokyo Ghoul as Beast game

[wyrdhamster]

After mine partner and friends advises, I started to watch Tokyo Ghoul anime series - and it's very highly resonate with Beast: The Primordial, both in setup and in themes of setting. So I made this topic to dig some idas, or how the show could be example to games mechanics. Notice: I much appriciate Spoiler Tags for the shows twists, as just started to watch the series - I think that stuff like end of first season should be mark by this.

Now, let talks about a Beasts in anime...

Or rather Ghouls - in series, Beasts are beings that feed be eating human corpses, not the fear of humans itself. Still, I think that Fleash Eating would work as Hunger for Prey in BtP, yes? Other Hungers could not work with this setup?

Protagonists of series - Ken Kaneki - is Beast that is effect of (literal) Makara Devouring gone wrong. His Older Sibling was also Makara called Rize - one that do not inspired Lessons in her feeding, and consumed by the Hunger completly. She was a bit pariah of Ghouls/Beast community, becuse of her feeding habits been called Binge Eater - I assume this kind of characters are typical antagonistical Begotten in BtP setting. Still, as Rize died in Devouring accident, she is visitng Ken as ghost? Or maybe his Horror form?

Have other interesing observation on series? What Hungers could work with Flesh Eating of Ghouls-as-Beasts?

[StSword]

Well in beast, since there are no physical differences, that means those anti-ghoul weapons would be made by imbuing weapons with beast's souls. Unless you want to limit them to only harvesting those beasts who have physically transformed by fusing with their souls, but that sounds like a recipe for extremely limited numbers there.

Honestly I'd do tokyo ghoul as folks with the dread powers from hunter, but that might just be me.

[TwitchTheRat]

Werewolf does this really well. Eating people is already part of their setting.

[wyrdhamster]

I could see Dread Powers or Werewolf games work a bit better mechaniclly as Tokyo Ghoul - but I was writing more in spirit for themes of show and Beast.

Hunger is central to the story at hand, and you almost feel as Satiety rises and falls in characters - like Kaneki when pressed to eat Hide, when starving. And then character returns to normal acting, when his Satiety rose.

Kagune - tenatcles and other "matter" coming from Ghouls - are clearly Atavisms, working on mere instinct. They even save Kaneki from falling, grabbing the walls like Doctor Octopus in Spiderman.

And whole Anteiku cafe thing - with protecting the humans and looking for humane way of saiting their Hunger - feels very much how basic society of Beast is shown in revision of corebook.

[wyrdhamster]

Analogy is even deeper - the Anteiku cafe is a new, adopted family for characters - they help each other, treat their problems, even are open for new memebers - but they are protective of each other. It's great reflection on what Broods could look like in game.

Really, the only problem with Tokyo Ghoul is that charcters are Hungry for Flesh - not the Fears - of humans and that they are not shown any Lairs.

[StSword]

Well that and people see the atavisms, since that isn't how they work, ghouls needing massive damage or attacks from ghoul weapony to get past their healing factor, and the fact that their ghoul weaponry has a rock paper scissors system going on when they'd pretty much be the same atavism in beast.

But themes, yes, it's a very good match, I completely agree.

[Ryu]

And the beast hunters could be an organization of heroes. That would explain why they are so successfull in hunting the beasts /ghouls

[YeOfLittleFaith]

Kaneki Ken's story is first and foremost a Vampire The Requiem one. Everything else pales by comparison; in theme, tone, and appropriate parallels.

When you try to adapt the bigger world of Tokyo Ghoul rather than focus on the similarities in frame and the characters, it starts falling apart, but overall there's still remarkable closeness between Tokyo Ghoul and a Requiem Chronicle (although one set in a world that's slightly different). You could find things in other nWoD games that resonate with the manga/anime, but none are as close to it as Vampire, far as I'm concerned. If you stretch your view beyond Kaneki it's easier to do, but definitely more clumsy to incorporate.

And besides, why would you overlook the most central character and important story arc of Tokyo Ghoul?

[wyrdhamster]

And the beast hunters could be an organization of heroes. That would explain why they are so successfull in hunting the beasts /ghouls

As to CCG I was more thinking as govemrnet run Hunter Conspiracy (? They have Endowments in the form of Quinque ) - they, on general, do not feel as so obssesed or supernaturally enhanced as Heroes are. BUT the Investiagor Mado could be seen as Hunter-gone-Hero after years of fight. He even has a look of Ahab.

[wyrdhamster]

Kaneki Ken's story is first and foremost a Vampire The Requiem one. Everything else pales by comparison; in theme, tone, and appropriate parallels.

Maybe becuse those themes, tone and parallels are also the Beast ones. Beasiclly, those common elements are Begotten-Kindred basis for Kinship in games.

Shows Ghouls are not immortal children of the night, they are not "dying" in their transformation - most are born the way they are. Hinami is best example of the child that was Beast all her life - but clearly not (VtR) ghoul drinking blood from it's master. Also, I do not see centureis old conspiracies of (shows) Ghouls in the series - and as I get, Covenants are very large part of VtR game. No, Tokyo Ghoul is series about Family, Hunger and Beast-Hero cycle ( I, literally, just watched episode 8 titled "Circular" about this topic exactly ).

If you think it better works as Requiem series, please, point the themes it has. Becuase right now I see themes stronger resonating with Beast, powers and "mechanics" of shows Ghouls also.

And besides, why would you overlook the most central character and important story arc of Tokyo Ghoul?

In what way? I pointed in first post that Kaneki's story i great example of Devouring gone wrong. And Devouring exactly, not Homecoming. It even slight more convinced me to Devouing idea in Beast game, in general.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

I do not actually have the patience to explain everything again, so I'm just going to quote myself from the last times Tokyo Ghoul was brought up in the forums.

(...)
Kaneki is the strongest reason to read it [Tokyo Ghoul] for inspiration towards vampire, because his path eventually mirrors many of the themes of Vampire (though mostly Requiem, I'm not that familiar with Masquerade). The progressive loss of Humanity. Having to deal with a monster inside of you, telling you to feed, always reminding you you are no longer human. Being confronted with choices - whether to deny your own unholy nature and suffer for it and bring pain down on those close to you; or embracing it to survive, giving away little pieces of what made you you to carry on and not have to be just another puppet in the politics and monstrousities in the shadows.

Other details and relationships between characters also make handy parallels with certain aspects of a vampire's life (and the mechanics and themes of Requiem).
(...)

(...)
Tokyo Ghoul, particularly in the early stages of the story, could serve as a fantastic reference for a game heavily focusing on fledgeling and neonate kindred. It actually astounded me how many morbid similarities there are between the conflicts of a newly embraced vampire and the downslope of Humanity loss, and what the main character of Tokyo Ghoul goes through in his story arc and development.

Like some Kindred, Kaneki Ken becomes something inhuman against his will, not even realizing it at first; he is forced to confront the fact he is no longer human, but a flesh-eating monster who can only live by harming and killing people; he struggles to maintain his integrity and survive at the same time; he undergoes loss because of this conflict, and he is forced to discard important parts of his human life. And to protect what he treasures as a person, he makes a conscious decision to accept the being he has become; wilfully discarding the humanity he so hung on to. It comes to an apex with his decision to sacrifice everything else for what he wants to protect if he has to - and to even consume other Ghouls for power.

There are very obvious differences (like the fact Ghouls actually have to eat flesh and not just drink blood, and they can actually catch sunlight), but there are also other things that trace interesting parallels to Vampire The Requiem (the way ghouls meld among humans and many have to balance their lives to keep themselves safe from public scrutiny, hiding their faces in the shadows with masks both real and figurative).

Heck, if you look at story in Requiem terms, there are details that immediately stand out: you can tell that Hide is Kaneki's Touchstone and Kimi is Nishiki's; you can tell who the scary low humanity Elders are; you can see when characters reach Humanity breaking points; even notice how Kaneki is changed by the consequences of Diablerie.

That said, the overall tone of the story tends to be a little more out of balance than the New World Of Darkness, but manages to be just as grim, tragic, and personal horror focused as its books.
(...)

The Hunger theme of Beast may align with Tokyo Ghoul, but I think the way Vampire does it is closer to the series. The Beast treatment of Family can be found in the series, true, and the Beast-Hero Cycle mirrors the bleak cycle of hatred and violence between Ghouls and Humans in their "messed up world" in certain ways.

But Tokyo Ghoul, when juxtaposed with the New World Of Darkness, is to me a quintessential Vampire The Requiem story about a Fledgeling who struggles to hold on to his Humanity at the same time as everything else he cares for - and suffers all the more because of it.

[wyrdhamster]

The Hunger theme of Beast may align with Tokyo Ghoul, but I think the way Vampire does it is closer to the series. The Beast treatment of Family can be found in the series, true, and the Beast-Hero Cycle mirrors the bleak cycle of hatred and violence between Ghouls and Humans in their "messed up world" in certain ways.

I show you three major themes of Beast you are agreeing, you pointing only one of Humanity in Vampire...

But Tokyo Ghoul, when juxtaposed with the New World Of Darkness, is to me a quintessential Vampire The Requiem story about a Fledgeling who struggles to hold on to his Humanity at the same time as everything else he cares for - and suffers all the more because of it.

You see, here is I disagree mostly - for me Kaneki is having Statiety, not Humanity. In Vampire, Humanity is downward spiral, where you cannot point yourself "higher" or "lower" by the means of story - or rather, it costs you very much, like 2-3 stories between events to re-buy your Humanity - basiclly they are whole quests to return to norm. And in Vampire, you will sooner or later lost them once more.

In mine interepretation, Kaneki perfectly shows Satiety, both as mechanics of Integirty stat and in story terms - when he is staving, it's like the "Rize's ghosts" is overtaking him - he, almost literally, becomes other persona, One-Eyed Ghoul. Until he feeds. when he returns to his normal being. I do not see "a redemption" of Kaneki in series, only scenes of his more human and more inhuman responses, finally stabilizing on middle way - but still looking on under- or over-Satieting his Hunger.

Touchstones are nothing esepcially unique to Vampire in 2ED WoD - Werewolf have them, Mage will have them. I did not gone to the mechanical part of Beast preview, but I assume they are there also.

[Satchel]

You see, here is I disagree mostly - for me Kaneki is having Statiety, not Humanity.

I call foul on multiple grounds.

Beasts don't experience dietary restrictions that prevent them from passing for human without difficulty. Vampires do, and so do the Ghouls.

Beasts don't need a conspiracy of silence to keep their monstrous nature from being public knowledge on an individual basis. Vampires do, and so do the Ghouls.

Beasts don't practically lose control of themselves when hungry or compartmentalize the part of their psychology that makes them look at people as food. Vampires do, and so does Kaneki Ken, who is the only sample we have to work with concerning what a Ghoul behaves like when introduced to their hunger after living like a human for most of their life.

Beasts do not operate on a primary narrative of tragic descent into inhumanity. Vampires have that as one of the stock archetypes of their branch of fiction, and this is one of the first things Kaneki Ken says:

If, for argument's sake, you were to write a story with me in the lead role, it would certainly be a tragedy.

I assume that I do not need to explain the distinction between sustaining oneself through feeding on fear and sustaining oneself on actual living blood, or the difference between having one's life saved by the introduction of part of a monster into one's biology and realizing one's birthright as the human embodiment of a primal nightmare-creature.

[YeOfLittleFaith]

I show you three major themes of Beast you are agreeing, you pointing only one of Humanity in Vampire...

That one theme is, like I explained, more important to the character of Kaneki Ken and the story of Tokyo Ghoul than any of the individual themes of Beast*. Your point being?

*And the Hunger of Vampires (that is to say, Ghouls) is deeply entrenched into that narrative theme of Requiem. Kaneki does not have Satiety or the Hunger of a Beggoten. He has the dwindling Humanity of Kindred and their monstrous need to sustain himself on blood (i,e. the flesh of Humans or Ghouls).

As for the rest, well, Satchel put it better than I could.

[wyrdhamster]

Re-reading chapters with revision, I see devs are pushing idea that Arabic-like Ghuls would be Namtaru - even if feeding with human flesh.

While some Namtaru wear faces of fear, the Arabic ghul wears any face it pleases. A shapeshifter most comfortable as a monstrous hyena, it is revolting not for its face or voice but for its eating habits —it prefers human flesh, a diet few Namtaru tolerate in the present day. Some Namtaru say the ghul hunts primarily in the dreamscape, using its Primordial Self as a deception to lure.

If human flesh is ABOVE the fear diet of Beasts, then we can choose different Hungers for different Tokyo Ghoul characters. Like for example I think those character would have this combinations from the anime:

• Ken Kaneki - Makara / Hunger for Prey - His Makara heritage is shown in his tentacle-like Atavisms ( Kagune ) and his Devouring scene, taking place in the Primordial Ocean with his Older Sister Rize.
• Touka Kirishima - Ugallu / Hunger for Prey - Her Ugallu heritage is show in her wings-like Atavisms and weird revulsion to birds. Later were shown the she really loved Raptors when she was little. This love/hate realation indicate her very strong attachment to the Skies.
• Nishiki Nishio - Makara / Hunger for Punishment - Like with Kaneki, he is Makara by his tentacle Atavisms. What is interesting in him is his drive to "punish" those that break his "feeding grounds" - or are dangerous to his close ones.