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  • Beast-Changeling Kinships

    I read what that the Beasties see other supernaturals as an extended family. So I have to ask, which family or group of Beasts see the True Fae and Changelings as family?

  • #2
    All of them. And none in particular.

    They recognize Changelings and True Fae as monsters very similar to themselves, likely because (from the Begotten's perspective) of a close link through the Dark Mother, but personal views will vary and be as diverse as Beasts themselves. Kinship is likewise a case-by-case basis.

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    • #3
      Ah, I see. The NWoD is so very nebulous, much to its own chagrin.

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      • #4
        From what I gathered, Beasts in general think of all monster types as extended family, except the Unchained Demons. The Inferno Demons, though? No idea if they count as Kin. Changelings tend to be suspicious of anyone they think might be a Loyalist, Huntsman or True Fae. These antagonists can effectively go anywhere in the world by passing through the Hedge as a sort of hyperspace. They also have the ability to invade dreams and find out people's secrets and vulnerabilities. Lastly, the True Fae themselves have godlike power while inside their Arcadian Realms, often subjecting their captives to whatever wonders and horrors they think will be amusing.

        Changelings lack this aspect of oppressive might for the most part. They make up for massive feats of fae sorcery with good networking, resource gathering and mutual protection. Not to mention that, since they don't have as much brute magical power as the True Fae, they try to compensate with trickery, stealth, hypnosis and illusions. These tactics usually take the form of Contracts that alter perceptions and one's appearance, Hedge-shaping know-how and eavesdropping via oneiromancy.

        So, recapping: True Fae might draw the attention of Ugallu, Eshmaki and Anakim, while the changelings might attract the attention of Ugallu, Eshmaki and Makara. The goal of the Beast in question varies: he might wish to become a friend, teach a lesson through fear, have a Family Dinner or something else. It really depends on the Beast and True Fae/Changeling we're talking about. A second edition changeling with the Beast Seeming and the Illes Kith might have quite a bit to talk about with a Namtaru.
        Last edited by GibberingEloquence; 08-27-2015, 01:54 PM.


        Let Him Speak.

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        • #5
          Infernal demons are kin.


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          • #6
            Fairly sure that the Lucifuge (only one among the Hunters) count as Kin. Ergo, its through the Inferno that they are kin, and therefore, yes. Infernal demons are indeed kin, as are the strix, the creatures of Duat, and everything else from the various planes in the Lower Depths.

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            • #7
              Well Beasts are living nightmares and Arcadia is a world sculpted by human dreams and imagination. Hell, for all we know, Beasts could be a mutated offshoot of the True Fae or vise versa. I mean you can find dragons, giants, harpies, and kraken among the True Fae, right? What makes them so different from a Beast interpretation?

              Beasts feed on fear, Changelings feed on a variety of emotions. Fear can be one of these emotions, but it's not their strict diet. True Fae abduct people and drag them back to their realm, kind of like a Beast dragging somebody into its lair to torment them at its leisure. The True Fae might be able to get along with them to a point, but I don't think the Changelings will respond well to find a creature that behaves like a True Fae, wanting to invite them into its family gatherings.
              Last edited by Nyrufa; 09-04-2015, 07:40 AM.

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              • #8
                There's a line somewhere in the Kickstarter text that I know is in the original, might not have made it to the second version. It's a loose recall, but I believe it was something like "better to have a dragon in the tent looking out, than outside the tent looking in". While Beasts may not be the combat machines Werewolves are, they are still very formidable opponents- especially older, more powerful Beasts. Against True Fae and Changelings I'd imagine they are even more dangerous, since they're fighting on similar ground.


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                • #9
                  This was my worry for the game. It underplays the deeply suspicious nature of the kin groups. I still find myself wondering how kin don't view Beasts as parasites to be eliminated. Hopefully the final draft supplies additional hooks that will help.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                    This was my worry for the game. It underplays the deeply suspicious nature of the kin groups. I still find myself wondering how kin don't view Beasts as parasites to be eliminated. Hopefully the final draft supplies additional hooks that will help.


                    Well in Forsaken, there's no Wyrm meta plot, which means no Wyrm Taint, so it's theoretically possible for Wolves to form alliances with vampires and such, but they probably won't be too comfortable with it. Vampires feed on blood which is far more hazardous to a person's health than simply putting a bit of fear into them.


                    Beasts are far from the worst thing the supernatural community has to offer. Sure, their ancestors may have been primordial horrors that slaughtered and ate entire villages in one setting, but the new Beasts are different. All they need is a bit of fear to keep them properly fed. Now compare this to vampires who feed on a person's blood or Werewolves who feed on one's spiritual essence.

                    Both of those seem pretty dangerous compared to a Beast. And, as I said, Changelings have a similar them to them in that they sustain themselves on the emotions of others. If you can tolerate a presence of Changelings, you can tolerate Beasts.
                    Last edited by Nyrufa; 09-04-2015, 09:55 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Actually my take is that supernaturals, especially hegemonic groups like Vampires, Changelings, Werewolves, and Mages are like gangs with turf. They suffer one another staking territory out because an all out war would make more problems than it solves.

                      The problem with the two drafts I read is that the politics of Family never gets addressed. There may be some mechanical advantage for a Vampire allowing a Beast to have a family dinner but that comes at a steep societal price for the Vampire. The same is true for the other splats.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                        Actually my take is that supernaturals, especially hegemonic groups like Vampires, Changelings, Werewolves, and Mages are like gangs with turf. They suffer one another staking territory out because an all out war would make more problems than it solves.

                        The problem with the two drafts I read is that the politics of Family never gets addressed. There may be some mechanical advantage for a Vampire allowing a Beast to have a family dinner but that comes at a steep societal price for the Vampire. The same is true for the other splats.
                        That steep societal price is kind of the point. Beasts are by nature going to have an easier time at picking up the solitaries and antagonists of the other lines than they are at infiltrating other supernatural societies in the long term. Asklepian's not sheltering that little mindbreaker vamp to get an in with the Prince, and the Beat criteria for Family Ties doesn't exist for the sake of ingratiating the changeling kin of a Lurker to the Courts.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jacob View Post
                          . . . The problem with the two drafts I read is that the politics of Family never gets addressed. There may be some mechanical advantage for a Vampire allowing a Beast to have a family dinner but that comes at a steep societal price for the Vampire. The same is true for the other splats.
                          One of the big advantages I see (for other supernaturals) is sanctuary. The Beast's lair is on another plane of existence, after all, with its own rules, defenses . . . and very limited access. What better place for a rogue vampire to sleep, than an extradimensional cave shrouded in eternal darkness? Or if you're a group of changelings, why wouldn't you want to camp out in the lair of a fifty foot long fire breathing dragon? Particularly one that considers you family (or part of its collection)?

                          With the Beast controlling access, and a powerful (and probably very territorial) Horror/Soul on-site, plus whatever natural defenses the place has. . . a Lair makes a very attractive safehouse. A social Beast (or one with a Hunger for collecting rare supernaturals) may well find itself the de facto landlord/"house mom" for a wide variety of fugitive supernaturals.



                          Edit: Which reminds me - do we have rules for what happens if you (or others) start making major changes to the chambers in a Lair? Seems like there should be consequences if your "house guests" start logging the endless forest chamber, and using the lumber to build their own village

                          (Of course, that's a cool idea in its own right - particularly for a Collector. What better way to show off your collection, than to let them build their own habitat?)
                          Last edited by One Vorlon; 09-05-2015, 06:34 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Changelings don't feed on emotions, they harvest them, but they don't use them to sustain themselves the way a vampire needs vitae to sustain themselves. They do feed on Goblin fruit, but they can feed on a burger and fries as easily (but no glamour from it).

                            So its not the same as Beasts, Beasts feed Changelings harvest and utilize the Glamour almost as a commodity.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                              So its not the same as Beasts, Beasts feed Changelings harvest and utilize the Glamour almost as a commodity.
                              A commodity whose harvesting is almost categorically compared in sensory terms with recreational drug use.

                              That the Lost are not literally sustained by the provocation or observation of strong emotional reactions does nothing to change the fact that it's a "supernatural hunger" in the same broad sense that Beast deals with.


                              Resident Lore-Hound
                              Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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