I'm making this thread because I typed up the following in the suggestion thread and thought to myself "Hmm. This might derail the thread." So here we are. That said, Allonsy,
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I'm gonna deal with the bolded then I'm gonna talk about the teaching culture on the whole, which will further address the bolded.
This presumes a human mode of morality, which as several people have pointed out (with incorrect conclusions, true) isn't true for Beasts. It's not false, but it's not true either.
Welcome to the balance beam, we've been waiting for you.
So, here's the paradox of Beasts, and why the inclusion of the teaching culture is actually silently brilliant.
The sort of stories Beast are based on, the myths and the epics, has these big epic monsters and beings of yore, the wild and untameable, the remnants of chaos, the night devourers and sun killers. In the context of the stories, the things Beast draw from are basically shards of natural nihilism. They aren't out to teach lessons. There is no inherent meaning in them.
So, why then?
Why is it that so many stories of this sort end up having some kind of lesson in them? Lessons about hubris and cleverness and kindness and virtue and stuff?
One would argue that the answer that it's all Heroic propaganda, and sure, maybe.
Or maybe the soul of humanity is a complex ocean of destiny and coincidence.
There's a section from the Dresden Files: Ghost Story, that's worth keeping in mind for the entire Chronicles of Darkness, but for Beast in particular.
Beasts, obviously, aren't human anymore. They aren't subject to the same moral questions as us. They aren't even wholly people, in a way that few of the other splats can match-they are the world, or at least functions of it. They are the storm and the forest and the ocean and the desert and the mountain, the jaguar and the wolf and the rhino and the snakes and the squids. The world is not kind. The world is not moral.
But the world can teach these things. Humanity has learned from an uncaring world. They have pulled meaning from monsters that only want to eat them. This is why the lion is noble and brave, the jackal cunning and protective, the owl watchful and learned. It's why the ocean is a lover as well as a fighter, why the sky is wise, why the mountain is patient.
Beasts are between worlds, like anyone else. They don't belong to humanity anymore, but still humanity is a part of who they are-in their case, it literally is. Beyond just having been raised human and still existing in the world of them, watching their movies, picking the up at the club, chatting with them at their restaurants, their souls are born from collective humanity. Born of fear, yes, but that foundation of fear is the foundation all of humanity is built on. There is no Bright Dream, no Rome, no law of relativity, no $10 for 2 pizza deals, no Morticia and Gomez, no poetry or philosophy or sciences, no marvel, nothing that isn't built on the human fear that the Beasts are. They aren't human, and yet are humanity in one of the most exquisitely complex ways there is to be. If there is no exquisite beauty without some strangeness in the proportion, then Beasts are the strangeness in the whole of humanity.
Beast nature is an imposition. There's no avoiding that. Where a Beast is, they will piss on territory, chew on children, and intrude on lives. A Beast cannot and generally will not ignore that, and in fact, they embrace the joy and power that comes from being an instigator. It is their lot in life to flip over the apple cart. Even if they don't embrace it, they will still inevitably do it.
So the decision from there is simple, because while Beasts are not beholden to human morality anymore than a vampire or a werewolf or a changeling is, much like any of those, they do have an obligation to balance their lives in accordance to their past-not beholden to humanity no longer their own, but in acknowledgement of the humanity that was once theirs. They can choose to just be the world. They can assert their dominance over themselves and still be the world.
Or they can take the fact that sooner or later they are going to get in people's business and choose to act, methodically, carefully, to force people to become stronger, smarter, better, to be a forge for the steeling of a person's soul. Because that's what monsters are and don't do, what they aren't and do with a passion.
Beasts are the edge of meaning, with the agency and power to decide on being just a Beast or being more. They are monsters, always and forever. They were, but are not human.
I would love to end there, but I should mention one more thing because a certain thread pisses me off because of how god damned stupid it is in failing to understand something, SO, let's get it out of the way.
Inheritances follow the nature of the Beast. Inheritances have nothing to do with the Beast's choices, only with the reasonable and logical extensions of their nature. They cannot become sheep. They cannot become exalted schoolteachers. Inheritances are the death of self in service to the nightmare. You don't ascend into the culture, because the culture is an artificial imposition from the human part of Beasts, a way for accounting who they were and what their relationship is with humanity. Sure, some of it is motivated by the way humanity has structured their collective soul, but the Horrors are baser than that on the whole, and that's what's making the claims.
An Incarnate can choose to still be a teacher, sure, okay, after the fact, maybe(but probably not)-but one does not become an Incarnate by still giving a shit about the will and lives of others. Those who chase the Inheritances are, by their nature, abandoning humanity. They see what they are, and know, deep down, that it's never enough for them, they need more. It's like an ache in the bones, the need to be more, to escape consequence that exists on the human scale.
Teach all you want, the nature of Inheritance doesn't give a shit. Teaching is a human thing, and the Inheritances are for people who can't abide their own personal humanity anymore-a life of consequence and meaning. Inheritances are the things that are worse to be than a monster.
So, by and large, Beast is complicated. But that which you call evil is, well, not. It's responsibility, it's owning what you are, not pretending you're anything else, and using it to be the best you can. It is monstrous. Sure. You won't hear me deny that. But for a Beast, using their nature, which will go and upset the apple cart anyways, to help improve others is an act of unquestionable good. And it's not like it stops with Feeding. If an intent to improve goes south, the Beast has the power and agency to go in and help, and often has the resources to do it while still being the monster in the shadows.
Monstrosity is not evil. Monsters can't live on human moral standards, and yet may still be morally upright.
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Originally posted by The Kings Raven
View Post
This presumes a human mode of morality, which as several people have pointed out (with incorrect conclusions, true) isn't true for Beasts. It's not false, but it's not true either.
Welcome to the balance beam, we've been waiting for you.
So, here's the paradox of Beasts, and why the inclusion of the teaching culture is actually silently brilliant.
The sort of stories Beast are based on, the myths and the epics, has these big epic monsters and beings of yore, the wild and untameable, the remnants of chaos, the night devourers and sun killers. In the context of the stories, the things Beast draw from are basically shards of natural nihilism. They aren't out to teach lessons. There is no inherent meaning in them.
So, why then?
Why is it that so many stories of this sort end up having some kind of lesson in them? Lessons about hubris and cleverness and kindness and virtue and stuff?
One would argue that the answer that it's all Heroic propaganda, and sure, maybe.
Or maybe the soul of humanity is a complex ocean of destiny and coincidence.
There's a section from the Dresden Files: Ghost Story, that's worth keeping in mind for the entire Chronicles of Darkness, but for Beast in particular.
Originally posted by Dresden Files, Ghost Story, Page 130
But the world can teach these things. Humanity has learned from an uncaring world. They have pulled meaning from monsters that only want to eat them. This is why the lion is noble and brave, the jackal cunning and protective, the owl watchful and learned. It's why the ocean is a lover as well as a fighter, why the sky is wise, why the mountain is patient.
Beasts are between worlds, like anyone else. They don't belong to humanity anymore, but still humanity is a part of who they are-in their case, it literally is. Beyond just having been raised human and still existing in the world of them, watching their movies, picking the up at the club, chatting with them at their restaurants, their souls are born from collective humanity. Born of fear, yes, but that foundation of fear is the foundation all of humanity is built on. There is no Bright Dream, no Rome, no law of relativity, no $10 for 2 pizza deals, no Morticia and Gomez, no poetry or philosophy or sciences, no marvel, nothing that isn't built on the human fear that the Beasts are. They aren't human, and yet are humanity in one of the most exquisitely complex ways there is to be. If there is no exquisite beauty without some strangeness in the proportion, then Beasts are the strangeness in the whole of humanity.
Beast nature is an imposition. There's no avoiding that. Where a Beast is, they will piss on territory, chew on children, and intrude on lives. A Beast cannot and generally will not ignore that, and in fact, they embrace the joy and power that comes from being an instigator. It is their lot in life to flip over the apple cart. Even if they don't embrace it, they will still inevitably do it.
So the decision from there is simple, because while Beasts are not beholden to human morality anymore than a vampire or a werewolf or a changeling is, much like any of those, they do have an obligation to balance their lives in accordance to their past-not beholden to humanity no longer their own, but in acknowledgement of the humanity that was once theirs. They can choose to just be the world. They can assert their dominance over themselves and still be the world.
Or they can take the fact that sooner or later they are going to get in people's business and choose to act, methodically, carefully, to force people to become stronger, smarter, better, to be a forge for the steeling of a person's soul. Because that's what monsters are and don't do, what they aren't and do with a passion.
Beasts are the edge of meaning, with the agency and power to decide on being just a Beast or being more. They are monsters, always and forever. They were, but are not human.
I would love to end there, but I should mention one more thing because a certain thread pisses me off because of how god damned stupid it is in failing to understand something, SO, let's get it out of the way.
Inheritances follow the nature of the Beast. Inheritances have nothing to do with the Beast's choices, only with the reasonable and logical extensions of their nature. They cannot become sheep. They cannot become exalted schoolteachers. Inheritances are the death of self in service to the nightmare. You don't ascend into the culture, because the culture is an artificial imposition from the human part of Beasts, a way for accounting who they were and what their relationship is with humanity. Sure, some of it is motivated by the way humanity has structured their collective soul, but the Horrors are baser than that on the whole, and that's what's making the claims.
An Incarnate can choose to still be a teacher, sure, okay, after the fact, maybe(but probably not)-but one does not become an Incarnate by still giving a shit about the will and lives of others. Those who chase the Inheritances are, by their nature, abandoning humanity. They see what they are, and know, deep down, that it's never enough for them, they need more. It's like an ache in the bones, the need to be more, to escape consequence that exists on the human scale.
Teach all you want, the nature of Inheritance doesn't give a shit. Teaching is a human thing, and the Inheritances are for people who can't abide their own personal humanity anymore-a life of consequence and meaning. Inheritances are the things that are worse to be than a monster.
So, by and large, Beast is complicated. But that which you call evil is, well, not. It's responsibility, it's owning what you are, not pretending you're anything else, and using it to be the best you can. It is monstrous. Sure. You won't hear me deny that. But for a Beast, using their nature, which will go and upset the apple cart anyways, to help improve others is an act of unquestionable good. And it's not like it stops with Feeding. If an intent to improve goes south, the Beast has the power and agency to go in and help, and often has the resources to do it while still being the monster in the shadows.
Monstrosity is not evil. Monsters can't live on human moral standards, and yet may still be morally upright.
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